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Re: Hiram Carmine - Des Moines County IA
Posted by: charles walthall (ID *****5531) Date: April 02, 2007 at 15:10:50
In Reply to: Hiram Carmine - Des Moines County IA by Jack of 40

RE: Hiram Carmine, Des Moines County IA

1850 Census IA, Des Moines, Yellow Spring:
Hiram Carmine 40 b OH
Lydia [not Julia] 35 b OH
Mary Jane 15 b Ill
Samuel 13 b " [Ill]
Martha 11 b " [Ill]
Richard 9 b Iowa
Milinda (sic, there is a clear dot over both "i"s) 7 b " [IA]
Sarah 4 b " [IA]
William 2 b " [IA]
Robert 1 b " [IA]

1856 Census IA, Des Moines, Benton
Allen [not Hiram] Carmine 45 b KY
[The change of the husband's name is curious,
but the wife & children are identical.]
Lydia " 37 b Ia
[hard to read, but looks more like Ia than Ind or Ill]
Mary " 20 b "
James " 18 b "
Martha " 17 b "
Richard " 15 b "
Malinda (sic) " 13 b "
Sarah " 11 b "
William " 9 b Iowa
[next page]
Robert Carmine 7 b Iowa
Elisa [no "] 5 b "
Emily 3 b "
Levi 0 b "

1860 Census IND, Jefferson, Shelby
Alen (sic) Carmine 49 b KY
Lydia Carmine 42 b Ind
Melinda (sic) " 17 b do [= ditto]
Sarah " 15 b do
William " 13 b do
Robert " 11 b do
Elisa " 9 b do
Emily " 7 b do
Levi " 5 b do
Franklin " 3 b do
Lydia " 1 b do

[couldn't find this family in 1870]

1880 Census IA, Van buren, Milton
Carmine Allen 70 b KY father b: KY mother b: KY
-- Sarah 63 b KY, father KY, mother KY
-- Lydia 21 b Indiana, father b KY, mother b Ind.
[Allen's wife Lydia has died & he has married Sarah]

There is great confusion about the birthplaces in the various censuses above, but that is fairly typical.

Can anyone tell me who Hiram/Allen & Lydia Carmine's dau. Mary/Mary Jane Carmine married?

Is it possibly Isaac Rowcroft, 22 & single in
IA, Des Moines, Washington Twp in 1856?
[Washington Twp is on the West side of Yellow Spring Twp,
so they could have met locally]
When Isaac Rowcroft died, his widow Mary married Samuel Smith. Their dau. Laurella Elizabeth Smith m. Albert J. Walthall, & they were my grandparents. My baby book says Mary (Rowcroft) Smith's maiden name was "Carman."

Foster & Elvina Carmean/Carmine's dau. Mary Jane Carmean/Carmine (b Jul 1837 Concord, Ross, OH; d 1665 Yellow Spring Twp, Des Moines, IA; bur. Kossuth) m.
John R. Braden (b ca. 1835). So, she is not my Mary.

Is Hiram/Allen a Carman or a Carmean?
The Carmans, from Hemel Hempstead, Eng., arrived 1631 Roxbury, Norfolk, MA & settled Hempstead, Long Island, NY.
The Carmeans/Cremeens/Cremins, from Co. Cork & Kerry, Ireland, arrived 1677 Taylors Island, Dorchester, MD.
They get hopelessly confused in Baltimore Co, MD, & in the MidWest. Carmine can be either.

Is Hiram/Allen Carmine related to Foster Carmine, both of Yellow Spring Twp, Des Moines, IA? Foster seems to be a Carmean descendant, s/o Pearson, s/o Curtis, s/o Jacob Carmean.

Thank you,
Charles Walthall


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