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Hiram/Allen Carmine Family
Posted by: charles walthall (ID *****5531) Date: April 04, 2007 at 10:51:24
  of 40


Husband: Hiram Allen
1850: Hiram b 1810 OH
1856: Allen b 1811 KY
[Why the change of name & place of birth?
This could be another person, but the family members are identical, except for pl of b.]
1860: Alen b 1811 KY
1880: Allen b 1810 KY, father KY; mother KY

Wife: Lydia (Sarah?)
1850: b 1815 OH
1856: b 1819 IA (?) [unclear, but looks more like Ia than Ill or Ind]
1860: b 1818 Ind
1880: Sarah b 1817 KY; father KY; mother KY
[Is this another wife, or is she now called Sarah to distinguish her from her dau. Lydia living with her?
See discussion under Lydia below.]


Mary Jane
1850: Mary Jane b 1835 IL
1856: Mary b 1836 IA (?) [unclear]

Samuel James
1850: Samuel b 1837 IL
1856: James b 1838 IA (?) [unclear]

1850: b 1839 IL
1856: b 1839 IA (?) [unclear]

1850: b 1841 IA
1856: b 1841 IA (?) [unclear]

1850: Milinda b 1843 IA
1856: Malinda b 1843 IA (?) [unclear]
1860: Melinda b 1843 Ind [probably incorrect]

1850: b 1846 IA
1856: b 1845 IA (?) [unclear]
1860: b 1845 Ind [probably incorrect]

1850: b 1848 IA
1856: b 1847 IA
1860: b 1847 Ind [probably incorrect]

1850: b 1849 IA
1856: b 1849 IA
1860: b 1849 Ind [probably incorrect]

Elisa [transcribed as Eliza]
1856: b 1851 IA
1860: b 1851 Ind [probably incorrect]

1856: b 1853 IA
1860: b 1853 Ind [probably incorrect]

1856: b 1856 IA
1860: b 1855 Ind [probably incorrect]

1860: b 1857 Ind

1860: b 1859 Ind
1880: b 1859 Ind; father KY; mother Ind
[This same census says her “mother” Sarah is b in KY not Ind.
That suggests that Sarah & Lydia may be different people,
& that Allen may have remarried.]

Census Info:
1830 & 1840: KY: preliminary web searches show no Hiram or Allen Carmine/Carman
1812: OH: no Carmine; Carman, James & Joshua
1820: OH: no Hiram or Allen Carmine; Carman, Carmean, Carmon
1830: OH: no Hiram or Allen Carmine; John Carmine
1840: IL: Carman, Carmon, Karmon are listed, but no Hiram or Allen.
[He would have been 29 or 30 in 1840 & his first 3 children were born 1835-39,
so he should have been listed as a head of household.
Perhaps, those children were not born in IL]
1850: IA, Des Moines, Yellow Spring [no “s” on the census form]
1856: IA, Des Moines, Benton
1860: Ind, Jefferson, Shelby
[Why did the family move all the way to SW Ind near the border of KY?
Was there a family reason?
None of the immediate neighbors is a Carmine.
Is there some member of his or his wife’s family nearby?
Did Hiram/Allen Carmine or his wife come from this area of KY?]
1880: IA, Van Buren, Milton

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