Posted By:Gillian
Subject:Denham and West Dean coats of arms
Post Date:January 18, 2013 at 23:03:04
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Forum:Lewknor Family Genealogy Forum
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Hi Steven - and anyone out there ...
I have continued to compare the Lewknor carpet of arms in the Metropolitan Museum of Art with the West Dean family’s various depictions of their arms:
1. the arms as painted on Sir Christopher Lewknor’s turtle (!), as can be seen in a photograph in “Chawton Manor and its Owners” by Leigh and Knight (while the turtle shield was still in the possession of Montague Knight) (available on-line).
2. the photograph of the Lewknor memorial in West Dean church, taken before the fire which destroyed Sir Richard’s table tomb ("Chawton Manor ..." again)
3. the composite coat of arms as tricked by William Durrant Cooper in 1849 (available on-line).
The ones that never vary are: Lewknor, Bardolph, Tregoze, Dalingridge, Braose (senior), Echingham, Camoys and D’Oyley.
Steven you say that the Denham arms show 1. Radmylde as Barry of 6, ermine and gules. This was identified by Fane Lambarde as No.12 on the carpet, but does not show on the various West Dean arms.
In “History of Ludlow”, among the coats of arms “extracted from a manuscript in the possession of John Mytton”(in Shrewsbury Archives), the arms of Sir Richard are given as, “by descent”: Lewkenor, Bardolph, Tregoz, Dallingridge, Braose, Echingham, Camoys, HUSSEY, D’Oyley, GRANDISON and GORING. I guess that these arms were identified after Sir Richard’s death, as his father is given as John Lewkenor, instead of Edmond, probably because his step-father was John Gunter. I don’t know why Hussey is among these, but neither do I know why Radmylde would be there. I am taking “by descent” to include possible heraldic heiresses.
Grandison: Cooper identifies Quarter No. 7 of the West Dean composite shield as Grandison and he tricks the pales as gules and or (red and gold) and includes gules in chief 3 crosslets or of Meulx. Lambarde identifies identifies No.6 of the frieze arms on the carpet as Meulx with the pales being azure and or, exactly as can be seen elsewhere on the internet. I find it curious that Cooper chose to ignore the carpet, when both Sir Christopher’s turtle shield and the carpet must have been known to him, with its paly azure and or. He tricked his drawing as gules and or, when your Noell is 3 pales gules in a field or (but no chief). The turtle shield and the arms in West Dean church clearly, although in monochrome, that quarter no.7 has a chief. I wonder whether Cooper was tricking according to what he *expected* to see ...
Halsham: Argent, a chevron gules between 3 torteaux. Goring is identidfied on the West Dean composite arms as Or, a chevron gules between 3 annulets gules. Goring would make sense in both the West Dean and Denham families’ arms as both are descended from Sir Henry Tregoz, alive 1271, who married Margaret daughter of John de Goring.
I shall follow up with my thoughts on West-LaWarre.
I wonder what new thoughts you might have.
Best wishes,