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John Dochstader's Third Wife
Posted by: Charles Julian (ID *****7539) Date: April 14, 2006 at 13:51:42
In Reply to: Re: Early Dockstaders by raymond lozon of 186

I've taken the "Sarah Montour's Creek" reference as a lead for at least one of John Dockstader's wives and focused on New York. The Montour family originated in New France ( Quebec ) and are descended from Pierre Couc called La Fleur of Cognac, France, a fur trapper of Trois-Rivières who married a widowed Algonquin woman named Marie in 1657. Pierre's son Louis Couc called La Fleur was the first in this family to adopt the name Montour ( reasons why he did so are unclear; Montour is a French name but does not seem to occur on the Continent ), and Louis' siblings – five sisters and one brother – followed suit in adopting the surname. Normally it would not be difficult to track one century of Montour descendants on through to John Dockstader's generation, but the Montour surname travelled both patrilinearly *and* matrilinearly, so that all of the first generation Cuoc lines became Montours. Fortunately only two Montour lines went to what is now the U.S. while the others remained in Quebec, and this helps narrow down the search.

All of the early Montours worked as interpreters in one capacity or another. Among the more famous of the U.S. branch personages are the interpreter Andrew3 Montour ( probably synonymous with a Henry3 Montour ), Andrew's son John4 Montour who was a Patriot during the Revolution, and a number of Iroquois Madames or "Queens", most of them viewed as malevolent in the eyes of U.S. history – Queen Esther4 Montour, Queen Catharine4 Montour, and of course Madame2 Montour. The latter three are often confused as the same person in historical sources.

Here is how the Montours got to the U.S. Louis2 Montour, eldest son of Pierre Couc and Marie, was an interpreter and Indian Agent for the French. He was assassinated in New York by an Agent called Joncaire in 1709. This act of treachery so angered Louis's sister Isabelle-Elizabeth2 Montour ( "Madame Montour" ) that she abandoned the French cause and allied herself with the English. Her surviving brother John2 ( Jean-Baptiste ) also moved, to Pennsylvania, though his line is less well-documented. Madame Montour was by this time the widow of a Frenchman called Germaneau, and she ( third? ) married an Oneida chief named Carandawana ( Karontowá:nen, "Big Tree" ) in New York State c. 1710. Madame Montour had at least two more children following the death of Germaneau, Andrew3 Montour the interpreter, probably born c. 1710, and Louis3 Montour, who was also an interpreter. Her husband Carandawana apparently took the name "Robert Hunter" out of respect for the governor and this makes it look as if she married the governor. Carandawana was killed in battle with the Catawbas about 1730. Andrew3 Montour married Sarah Ainse as his second wife ( his first wife being the granddaughter of Allummapees ), and this woman "Sally Montour" appears to have been mistaken for the wife of Hanyery Doxtator in early sources, perhaps owing to her presence at Fort Stanwix and to her residency among the Oneida following the breakup of her marriage to Montour. Madame2 Montour had a niece named French Margaret3, but whose daughter she was is unclear. Consequently Margaret3 is usually taken to be a daughter of Madame Montour even though several sources state she was a niece. French Margaret3 had daughters named Catharine4 and Esther4 Montour, these being the Montour women depicted as "witches" in later U.S. narratives owing to their alleged brutality during the Wyoming Massacre in which they are said to have taken part. Catharine4 was "Queen of the Seneca" after the death of her husband, whose name is given as Chief Telenemut ( not an Iroquois name ) on a NY State plaque. According to the same source Catharine4 was officially born 1710, which confounds her placement as Madame Montour's granddaughter – in all likelihood she was born nearer 1730 since she died in 1804.

The branch of the Montour family that John Dochstader most probably married into is that of Roland and John Montour who served in Butler's Rangers and the Indian Department. Cruikshanks "Butler's Rangers" contains numerous references to these brothers. A critical piece of information for the placement of this branch comes from a 1779 letter from Francis Goring to Edward Pollard which gives Roland, John and Belle Montour as children of Edward Pollard. Pollard was head trader at Fort Niagara following the end of the French and Indian Wars and married Telenemut's widow Catharine4 Montour, from whom his children inherited their surname. Pollard apparently also fathered Captain Pollard, head chief of the Seneca at Buffalo Creek, by another Seneca woman, but had returned to London by 1780. In the letter of 1779 given below, Goring, who was at this time employed as Pollard's clerk, mentions that the widower of Pollard's daughter Belle Montour has been killed on the Ohio River, and oddly enough the person who has reported this incident to him is none other than a Lt. Docksteder.

------------

Francis Goring to Edward Pollard on Newton battle
Niagara, Sept. 12th, 1779

Dear Sir,

Your favor of the 26th July I received per Mr. Forsyth of the 26th ultimo; also a letter from Lieut. Harrow which I took care to forward. Prior to the receipt of yours, I had already credited you for the 170 lbs. oatmeal at 6d per pound. You have also another credit for 2,000 lb. flour, which is charged to Wm. Lyons, the baker, at 40s per cwt; that quantity, he informs me, you paid him for, the morning you left this. I have waited on Mr. Bliss several times, in order to settle the butter account, but have been always put off by his saying he has not time at present to weigh it, nor will not take it by invoice. Indeed, he is a very litigious, troublesome gentleman to deal with, but hope in a few days to bring him to a settlement. - I have been very busy drawing up another Indian account for L5, 808. There is like to be a very great change in our house in a short time, having once more taken an account of stock, etc. but everything is kept entirely secret from me.

Yesterday came in Captain Powell from Canawagoris, where he left Col. Butler two days before in perfect health and spirits. He informs me their first attack with the Rebels was about fifteen miles from Shimango, where Col. Butler made a breast-work, which the Rebels observed, and with two six and four three pounders and small mortars, in half an hour, obliged Col. Butler to retreat. On the same day, a few miles from this, Col. Butler attempted again to stop them, but in vain. In this attack, the Colonel lost four rangers killed, two taken prisoners and seven wounded; – three Senecas and one Cyugo (Cayuga) killed. Your son John Montour, (not Roland) was shot in the back, and the ball lodges in him; however, he is likely to do well, for in a few days after, he, with twenty Indians, stopped the pass of the advanced guard of the Rebels, which was upwards of one thousand, and obliged them to retreat. In this action Col.. Butler and all his people was surrounded, and was very near being taken prisoners. The Indians here all run away, being struck with a panic, and has not been able to gather till very lately. The Colonel retreated to Canadasagoe, but since that is now come to the last village which is Canawagoras. The number of the rebels is not known for certain. Young Clement, from the top of a tree on a hill, counted upwards of 500 tents and seven pieces of cannon, and a great quantity of live cattle which they drive with them, and keep such close order that a prisoner cannot be taken, though the Indians are often very close to them, which they no sooner see when a whole Regiment fires, even at one man. The Rebels has since been joined by 2,800, three large parties from Crokin's lake slope-house and the whole of their army is thought to be about six thousand, under the command of three Generals – Sullivan, Markfield and Hands. The Indians are determined, to a man, to dye with Col. Butler, and have requested of Col.. Boulton to send all the men he can, which a few days ago, he sent sixty men, mostly the light infantry, with Lieuts.. Coote and Pepyat, and two grass-hoppers, and by the next vessels expects one hundred from Carleton Island and as many more from Detroit, which are to go immediately to join Col. Butler, as they mean once more to try their fait. Live or die – is the word all through their Camp. Lieuts.. ST. Magin and Harkimer are expected in every day from the Colonel's with ninety Rangers, who are all sick, which is a great loss to Col. Butler at this critical juncture. Lieut.. Docksteder writes from the Ohio that a party of Rebels has destroyed several Indian villages, with all the corn. He also informs me that a party of Indians going on a scout in three canoes, was fired on by a scout of Rebels from the shore, which killed three, among which was a son of yours, the eldest and handsomest of the white boys, that was formerly married to your daughter, Belle Montour.

Published source: "The History of Buffalo", p. 346 (incomplete citation)
Kindly submitted [ to http://www.nyhistory.net/~drums/goring_to_pollard_newtown_091279.htm ] by Maggie Parnall

------------

This reference together with those in Cruikshank leads me to suspect that the branch of the Montour family known to John Dochstader was this one, and at first I wondered if Roland and John Montour did not also have a sister or daughter Sarah Montour to whom John Dochstader was married. A second reference, in Watson's Annals of Philadelphia and Pennsylvania Volume II (1857), under "The Captivity of Benjamin Gilbert and His Family, 1780", helped clarify things, however. The background of the Montour brothers is given as follows:

"The names of these Indians, with their respective tribes, are as follows: Rowland Monteur, 1st captain; John Monteur, second in command, who was also styled captain. These two were Mohawks, descended of a French woman. Samuel Harris, John Huston, and his son, John Huston, Jr., were Cayugas; John Fox of the Delaware nation; the other five were Senecas."

The Gilbert family, who were taken prisoner by Montour's company, were ultimately led back to Fort Niagara to run the gauntlet and then be adopted by families ( including Roland Montour's ) who had lost family members. Mention is made of Roland's Cayuga wife, the daughter of a Seneca Chief Siangorochti, alias Grahta or Old Smoke:

"Not long after parting with these the captain's [ Roland's ] wife came to them. She was a daughter of Siangorochti, king of the Senecas, but her mother being a Cayuga, she was ranked among that nation, the children generally reckoning their descent from the mother's side. This princess was attended by the captain's brother John, one other Indian, and a white prisoner who had been taken at Wyoming by Rowland Monteur. She was dressed altogether in the Indian manner, shining with gold lace and silver baubles. They brought with them from the fort a supply of provisions. The captain being at a distance behind when his wife came, the company waited for him. After the customary salutations he addressed himself to his wife, telling her that Rebecca was her daughter, and that she must not be induced by any consideration to part with her, whereupon she took a silver ring off her finger and put it upon Rebecca, by which she was adopted as her daughter."

If I were to take a guess, I would say that Captain John's third wife "Sarah Montour" was the widow of Roland Montour who died September 1779 a week after being shot in the arm ( Cruikshank p. 82 ). John Dochstader's daughter Mary was born c. 1780-1782 and this fits, as does the nation ( Cayuga ) and the name "Montour", which is common among the Six Nations but mainly among the Mohawks of Quebec rather than of the Grand River, and which is under other circumstances a surname not at all associated with the early Cayugas ( this is the reason I doubted "Sarah Montour" would have been John's Cayuga Wife, which is I believe where David K. Faux placed her in his research notes, but here is a perfect connection ). If this is so, John's Dochstader's wives are:

1. Unknown (Mohawk)
2. Unknown (Seneca)
3. Sarah Montour (Cayuga)
4. Unknown (Onondaga)
5. Sarah Burns alias Sally Ann Van Gorder

Sarah Montour ( nee Smoke? )'s father was the Seneca Chief Guyanguahta. In Mohawk the name is Kaien'kwà:ton ( "Disappearing Smoke" ) but more often Shakoien'kwarà:ton ( "He makes them disappear in the smoke", also the name of John "Smoke" Johnson ); "Siangrochti" is Shaien'kwarà:tih ( "Him characterized by Disappearing Smoke" ) with Seneca -ih suffix; Grahta ( "sah-yunh-GWUH-RAH-HTUH" ) preserves the Mohawk. "Old Smoke" was of the Turtle Clan and was reknowned for his military prowess. Along with John Butler and Cornplanter he co-ordinated the assault on the Wyoming Valley and ultimately settled with his family at Buffalo Creek in 1780. Old Smoke is mentioned in Chapter XI of Campbell's Annals of Tryon County, but his Cayuga wife and extended family are unfortunately not well documented in colonial sources. Roland Montour's line from Pierre Couc called La Fleur is as follows:


1 Pierre Couc called Lafleur ( French ) b. Abt 1624 Cognac, France, d. APR 1690 Saint-François du Lac. Interpreter, Fur Trader.
. . . + Marie Mitewamegoukwe ( Algonquin ) 16 APR 1657 Trois-Rivières, d. 1699 Trois-Rivières.
. . . . . . 2 Jeanne Couc called Lafleur ( Métis ), b. 14 JUL 1657 Trois-Rivières, d. 23 OCT 1679 Trois-Rivières, no issue.
. . . . . . 2 Louis Couc called Lafleur called Montour ( Métis ) chr. 27 NOV 1659 Trois-Rivières, d. 1709 NY. Interpreter, Fur Trader.
. . . . . . 2 Marie-Angélique Couc called Montour ( Métis ) b. Abt 1661 Trois-Rivières.
. . . . . . 2 Marguerite Couc called Montour ( Métis ) b. 01 JUN 1664, chr. 05 JUN 1664 Trois-Rivières.
. . . . . . 2 Isabelle-Élizabeth Couc called Montour ( Métis ), b. Abt 1667 Trois-Rivières, d. 1749 PA.
. . . . . . . . . + Joachim Germaneau ( French ) called Germano 30 APR 1684 Sorel. Fur Trader, d. Abt 1695.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Jacques Montour chr. 01 MAY 1684 Trois-Rivières.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Marie-Anne Germaneau called Montour b. Abt 1695, d. 22 APR 1730 Quebec.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Michel Germaneau b. Abt 1695, d. 15 MAY 1734 Montreal.
. . . . . . . . . + Pierre Tichenet ( French ) Abt 1704, d. 1706.
. . . . . . . . . + Robert Hunter Karontowá:nen ( Oneida ) Abt 1707, d. Abt 1728.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Margaret Montour a.k.a. French Margaret ( Iroquois ) [ a niece? ]
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . + Peter Quebec Katarioniecha ( Mohawk )
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 Catharine Montour ( Iroquois )
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . + Telenemut Huston ( Seneca? )
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . + Edward Pollard ( English ) d. 1794.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 Roland Montour ( Mohawk or Seneca )
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . + Daughter of Siangorochti alias Old Smoke ( Cayuga )
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 John Montour ( Mohawk or Seneca )
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 Belle Montour ( Mohawk or Seneca )
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 Esther Montour ( Iroquois )
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . + Mahagohund or Egnohow ( ? )
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 Mary or Molly Montour ( Iroquois )
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . + White Mingo or John Canigaatt or Kanaghoragait ( Seneca )
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Andrew Montour Sha'teríhon or Shaterí:io ( Iroquois ) b. Abt 1710, d. 1772. Interpreter.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . + Unknown ( Delaware ) Granddaughter of Allummapees.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 John Montour ( Delaware ) b. Abt 1744.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . + Sarah Ainse ( Oneida ) Abt 1745
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 Nicholas Montour ( Oneida ) chr. 31 OCT 1756 Albany, d. 06 AUG 1808 Pointe-du-Lac, Quebec.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Lewis Montour ( Iroquois )
. . . . . . 2 Marie Madeleine Couc called Montour ( Métis ) b. Abt 1669 Trois-Rivières.
. . . . . . 2 Jean-Baptiste Couc called Montour ( Métis ) b. Abt 1673 Trois-Rivières.


One reason this Montour tree might still be of relevance is that there is no longer a gap between the end of the Revolution and John Dochstader's marriage to a Cayuga wife, and consequently there is now only a four year period 1776-1780 during which John can have married a Seneca woman. Since the Hustons and Montours seem both to have ties to the Senecas ( Catharine4 Montour was a Seneca "Queen" ) I wonder if John did not marry a Seneca Montour or Huston relation who died before 1780. Roland Montour's family's adoption of Rebecca Gilbert as ( apparently their only? ) daughter is indicative of loss in the family, and epidemics coupled with war and the winter months may have taken a large toll on the population. Since Adam Dochstader's mother was Seneca I would now place his birth at about 1778, making him about 23 years old when Captain John died and about 48 years old when he signed the 1826 treaty at Buffalo Creek. Chances are that while Captain John apparently supported his son ( or at least mentions him in his will ), Adam was raised entirely by his mother's family, i.e. by her brothers and sisters, at Buffalo Creek from the 1780s forward. John, Joseph and Wari Dochstader apparently came to Canada with the Mohawks, their mother's people.


1 Captain John Dochstader b. Abt 1750 New York.
. . . + Unknown ( Mohawk ) Abt 1768 New York.
. . . . . . 2 John Dochstader ( Mohawk ) b. Abt 1768 New York.
. . . . . . 2 Joseph Dochstader ( Mohawk ) b. Abt 1771 New York.
. . . . . . 2 Wari Dochstader ( Mohawk ) b. Abt 1774 New York.
. . . + Unknown ( Seneca ) Abt 1777 New York.
. . . . . . 2 Adam Dochstader ( Seneca ) b. Abt 1778 New York.
. . . + Sarah Montour nee Smoke ( Cayuga ) Abt 1780 New York.
. . . . . . 2 Mary Dochstader ( Cayuga ) b. Abt 1781 New York.
. . . + Unknown ( Onondaga ) Abt 1785 Grand River?
. . . . . . 2 Catherine Dochstader ( Onondaga ) b. Abt 1786 Grand River.
. . . + Sarah Burns alias Sally Ann Van Gorder Abt 1790 Grand River.


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