Starting Sept. 5, 2014, Genealogy.com will be making a big change. GenForum message boards, Family Tree Maker homepages, and the most popular articles will be preserved in a read-only format, while several other features will no longer be available, including member subscriptions and the Shop.
 
Learn more


Chat | Daily Search | My GenForum | Community Standards | Terms of Service
Jump to Forum
Home: Surnames: Dockstader Family Genealogy Forum

Post FollowupReturn to Message ListingsPrint Message

Re: Genealogy of Catherine Dachsteder (1781-1856)
Posted by: Charles Julian (ID *****7539) Date: June 22, 2006 at 19:14:03
In Reply to: Re: Genealogy of Catherine Dachsteder (1781-1856) by Charles Julian of 186

It's about time for an update. I came across some of the original Frederick and Adam Jung documentation mentioned in the summaries, including the reference to Frederick's son who died 1779, and collectively it left me with the impression that Philip Jung is not a son of Frederick. I then went through the Stone Arabia church records, David K. Faux's Young family summaries, Clifford A. Young's book, and MacWethy's Book of Names again and have come to the conclusion, albeit unproven, that Theobald Jung probably had several more children, and that these children are the other Jungs who appear in Stone Arabia church records of the 1750s and 1760s, i.e.

1 Johann Theobald Jung b. Abt 1690 Germany.
. . . + Maria Catharina Abt 1716 New York.
. . . . . . 2 Johann Adam Jung b. 17 MAY 1717 New York.
. . . . . . 2 Maria Catharina Jung b. Abt 1719 New York.
. . . . . . 2 Johann Friedrich Jung b. Abt 1722 New York.
. . . . . . 2 Anna Margaretha Jung b. Abt 1724 New York.
. . . . . . 2 Dorothea Elisabeth Jung b. Abt 1729 New York.
. . . . . . 2 Andreas Jung b. Abt 1733 New York.
. . . . . . 2 Peter Jung b. Abt 1736 New York.
. . . . . . 2 Theobald Jung b. Abt 1738 New York.
. . . . . . 2 Philip Jung b. Abt 1740 New York.
. . . . . . 2 Johannes Jung b. Abt 1742 New York.

The original genealogical dilemma pertained to whether Philip Jung and others e.g. the Peter Jung who married Magdalena are of the Hendrick Jung line or of the Theobald Jung line, these being the only forseeable solutions since the Hans Christian and Dietrich Jung families were not established early enough in the Valley. On drawing up lines for both families, however, it appears that after Hendrick Jung ( who I'm now even more convinced was Theobald's brother ) sold his property and returned to Schoharie, he and his family stayed there: none of his known children, including Hendrick Jung Jr who had a slew of children, have records at any of the Stone Arabia area churches. Hendrick sold his holdings near Stone Arabia to Stephen Groesbeck in 1732 ( Theobald Jung witnessed the signature ) and in all likelihood he took his children back to Schoharie with him. Consequently it can reasonably be supposed that the Jungs in attendance at Stone Arabia churches immediately afterward ( earliest record 1742 ) are of the Theobald Jung line, since no other Jung families are attested early enough in the area. Among the Jung entries at Stone Arabia churches there are also consistent ties to e.g. the Kaiser, Schremling, and Frei families, and as noted Frederick and Adam Jung are the only Jungs observed to have had ties to the Bells and to Han Yost Herkimer, longtime residents of the area.

A conservative rendering of the Theobald Jung family tree includes as sons only Adam, Frederick, Andreas and Theobald Jr, and so we have to ask ourselves why Peter, Philip and Johannes Jung should be added. First it's important to note that Adam and Frederick Jung are known to be brothers from Loyalist records, as well as from the Young Patent deed, which lists them along with brother Andreas Jung. What's even more worth noting is that without record of this patent, issued 1752, there would be, as far as I can tell, nothing to link Andreas Jung to Adam and Frederick, since Andreas was not a Loyalist during the war and he died of old age in New York State. Theobald Jung Jr is not mentioned at all on this patent since he was presumably not old enough to have been an independent patentee at the time, but given that his name is Theobald it would not have been hard to link him to the Theobald line circumstantially were he not a Loyalist. When it comes to Peter, Philip, and Johannes Jung, however ( order and age estimated on the basis of when the first record of marriage or a child's baptism appears ), things are far less clear. Like Theobald Jr, they would all have been too young to appear as Patentees on the Young Patent. There is a 25-year gap between the birth of Theobald Sr's oldest son Adam Jung in 1717 and his ( putative ) youngest son Johannes, b. Abt 1742, and growing up there would likely have been a sharp divide between older male siblings ( Adam and Frederick, b. 1717-1722 ) and younger male siblings ( Andreas, Peter, Theobald, Philip and Johannes b. 1733-1742 ), groups separated via the birth of several daughters. If Philip Jung was born about 1740 by which time his brother Adam was 23 then married in about 1763 the year Theobald Young Sr died and then died himself three years later, there will be little of record to tie him to Theobald Jung's family conclusively apart from the fact that he seems to have been able to acquire baptismal sponsors of some considerable standing in Stone Arabia for the christenings of his children. In light of all this, and while it's definitely debatable, I think it's reasonable to assume Philip Jung to have been part of the long-seated and relatively prestigious Theobald Jung family of Stone Arabia, which as mentioned earlier is, as far as I can tell, the only Young family living in this area and attending church there until at least the 1770s.

As for the age of Frederick Jung Esquire, I would now place his birth relatively early in spite of his late ( second? ) marriage to Catherine Bell-Schumacher, since he appears as a baptismal sponsor in all three of the first Jung records to be found at the Stone Arabia Reformed Church beginning with the sponsorship of his brother Adam's first son Johannes ( b. 1742, about the same time as an uncle of the same name ). Accordingly I would take Frederick Jung to have been nearly as old as Adam Jung, b. about 1722 as the third child if not the second.

Unfortunately the identity of Philip Jung's wife, an individual I'm particularly interested in, remains a mystery pending discovery of a marriage record or reference to the identity of the wife of John Stevens UE.

On a related note the name "Elizabeth (Young) Stevens" appears to be rooted in a conflict between the old Van Every genealogies on the one hand, whose authors had apparently inherited the name of the matriarch as "Elizabeth Young", and formal reference to Frederick Dochstader's having married the daughter of John Stevens on the other. This is illustrated by a series of entries found in the Eighteenth and Nineteenth Annual Reports of the Department of Public Records & Archives of Ontario, of which I recently obtained type-written copies:

------------

4th November 1794

Elizabeth Van Every: Petitioner's former husband was Frederick Doxsteeder, a Lieut. in Col. Butler's Rangers last war. Petitioner has never taken up any lands for herself or husband. Prays Your Excellency for such portion of lands as your goodness may think proper. Ordered to be brought on next Council. [ 18th report, pg. 96 ]

------------

19th August 1795

Elizabeth Van Every: The widow of a Lieutenant in Butler's Rangers, who was killed in 1781, and who left one child. She has never drawn any lands for herself or in right of her late husband, prays for such quantity as the Council shall seem meet. The Committee cannot recommend to its full extent, for the reasons given in the report on Captain James McDonnell's petition [ on this petition the Committee ruled that granting land to the heirs of men who were killed in battle was essentially not feasible, since entitlement to land would be out of control ], but in consideration of the circumstances stated, orders that 1200 acres be granted for the support of the petitioner and her son. [ 18th report, pg. 141 ]

------------

11th March, 1797

William Van Every: Praying for family lands and lands in right of his wife, a U.E. Loyalist. Ordering 150 acres as family lands, and 200 acres to Elizabeth Stevens, his wife, the daughter of a U.E. Loyalist, if not granted before. [ 19th report, pg. 101 ]

------------

Thus Elizabeth Young was presented as the daughter of her stepfather, John Stevens UE, when petitioning for land under application of her husband, also a U.E. Loyalist. Obscure government petitions aside, however, the Van Every family seems to have known that she was in fact Elizabeth Young evidently the daughter of Philip Young, a man deceased before the Revolution and consequently a far less effective father figure by whom to petition for land ( especially if one knows that being a widow whose husband died in battle will henceforth count for little, as Elizabeth must have realized following the response she received to her petition of 1794 ).

To sum up, the first three generations of the Theobald Young family as I have it are:

1 Johann Theobald or David Jung b. Abt 1690 Germany, d. 1763 Canajoharie, New York.
. . . + Maria Catharina Abt 1716 New York.
. . . . . . 2 Johann Adam Jung b. 17 MAY 1717 New York.
. . . . . . . . . + Catharina Elisabeth Schremling Abt 1738 New York.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Johannes Jung b. 1742 Stone Arabia, New York.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Elisabeth Jung b. Abt 1746 New York.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Johann Niclaus Jung chr. 17 JUN 1750 New York.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Daniel Jung b. Abt 1755 New York.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Theobald or David Jung b. Abt 1762 New York, d. 1779 New York.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Abraham Jung b. 17 AUG 1762 Stone Arabia, New York.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Henrich Jung b. 17 AUG 1762 Stone Arabia, New York.
. . . . . . 2 Maria Catharina Jung b. Abt 1719 New York.
. . . . . . . . . + Georg Schremling
. . . . . . 2 Johann Friedrich Jung b. Abt 1722 New York.
. . . . . . . . . + Catherine Schumacher 18 MAR 1762 Stone Arabia, New York.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Unknown Son Jung d. 1779 New York.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Dorothy Jung 26 JAN 1764 Stone Arabia, New York.
. . . . . . 2 Anna Margaretha Jung b. Abt 1724 New York.
. . . . . . . . . + Johannes Hess 10 NOV 1743 Stone Arabia, New York.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Catharina Hess b. 16 JUL 1744 Stone Arabia, New York.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Johann Friedrich Hess b. 10 MAY 1751 Stone Arabia, New York.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Theobald or David Hess b. 22 SEP 1753 Stone Arabia, New York.
. . . . . . 2 Dorothea Elisabeth Jung b. Abt 1729 New York.
. . . . . . . . . + Michael Kaiser
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Bernhard Jung b. 12 MAY 1753 Stone Arabia, New York.
. . . . . . 2 Andreas Jung b. Abt 1733 New York.
. . . . . . . . . + Elisabetha
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Theobald or David Jung b. 30 DEC 1761 Stone Arabia, New York.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Johannes Jung b. Abt 1763 New York.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Jacob Jung b. Abt 1765 New York.
. . . . . . 2 Peter Jung b. Abt 1736 New York.
. . . . . . . . . + Anna Magdalena
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Henrich Jung b. 11 AUG 1762 Stone Arabia, New York.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Maria Lena Jung b. 27 AUG 1767 Stone Arabia, New York.
. . . . . . 2 Theobald or David Jung b. Abt 1738 New York.
. . . . . . . . . + Margaret Hauss 14 JUN 1763 Stone Arabia, New York.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Johann Friedrich Jung b. 23 JUN 1764 Stone Arabia, New York.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Johannes Jung b. 29 JAN 1766 New York.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Theobald or David Jung b. 27 AUG 1770 Stone Arabia, New York.
. . . . . . 2 Philip Jung b. Abt 1740 New York.
. . . . . . . . . + Anna Maria
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Elisabetha Jung b. 12 DEC 1764 Stone Arabia, New York.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Philip Jung b. 02 SEP 1765 Stone Arabia, New York.
. . . . . . 2 Johannes Jung b. Abt 1742 New York.
. . . . . . . . . + Anna Margaretha
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Barendt Jung b. 27 AUG 1766 Stone Arabia, New York.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Michael Jung b. Abt 1772 New York.

This would make Catherine Dochstader's updated ancestry ( three out of four grandparents ):

1 Johann Georg Dachstaedter b. Abt 1679 Germany.
. . . + Anna Elisabetha
. . . . . . 2 Georg Adam Dachstaeder b. Abt 1709 Germany.
. . . . . . . . . + Catherine Staring
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Frederick Dochstader b. 29 MAY 1755 Stone Arabia, New York.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . + Elizabeth Young
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 Catherine Dochstader b. 1781 Fort Niagara.

1 Johann Niclaus Staring ( of 'Wensheim', commune Alzey, Palatinate )
. . . + Unknown
. . . . . . 2 Johann Adam Staring b. Germany.
. . . . . . . . . + Anna Maria Lifenius nee Unknown 02 DEC 1712 New York.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Maria Catharina Staring b. 28 SEP 1715 New York.

( Maria Catharina was more than likely 'Catherine Staring' of the Dochstader birth records since 'Anna' and 'Maria' are feminine counterparts to 'Johann', i.e. so-called throw-away names essentially used as first names only at baptism. Maria Catherine's birthdate fits perfectly and her father Johann Adam Staring was a Burnetsfield Patentee along with Dachstaeders. Elisabeth Staring who married Johann Frederick Dachstaeder was probably a younger sister of Catherine, b. say 1720-21 ).

1 Johann Theobald or David Jung b. Abt 1690 Germany.
. . . + Maria Catharina Abt 1716 New York.
. . . . . . 2 Philip Jung b. Abt 1740 New York.
. . . . . . . . . + Anna Maria
. . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Elisabetha Young b. 12 DEC 1764 Stone Arabia, New York.

Philip's status as a son of Theobald is inferred there are no birth records for any of Theobald Sr's children apart from the first one, Johann Adam, who was old enough to be recorded in the Kocherthal records. Frederick and Theobald Jr are linked to Adam through Loyalist records, and the Young Patent deed includes the name of Andreas, who was not a Loyalist. The rest of the children are inferred on the basis of the idea that there was only one Jung family inhabiting Stone Arabia at this time, which from what I've found seems to be a solid claim.

An interesting final note is that Sergeant Philip Young II of Butler's Rangers had an eldest son named David ( b. Abt 1785 ), who was presumably named either for his grandfather, cousin, or uncle of the same name the name David being, as noted by David K. Faux, a Palatine anglicization of the name Dewalt or Theobald at this time, and accordingly rare among the Palatine Germans. Philip II's other children were Peter ( b. Abt 1787 ), Catherine ( b. Abt 1789 ), Dorothy, John, Philip III, William, Alexander, Jeremiah and Jane according to Orders in Council records given in Reid's Sons and Daughters of American Loyalists.


Notify Administrator about this message?
Followups:

Post FollowupReturn to Message ListingsPrint Message

http://genforum.genealogy.com/dockstader/messages/97.html
Search this forum:

Search all of GenForum:

Proximity matching
Add this forum to My GenForum Link to GenForum
Add Forum
Home |  Help |  About Us |  Site Index |  Jobs |  PRIVACY |  Affiliate
© 2007 The Generations Network