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Re: Marsalis/Marselis/Marselise/Marcelis/Marcelisse/Merselis
Posted by: Paul VanDenburgh (ID *****4712) Date: March 28, 2009 at 10:38:42
In Reply to: Marsalis/Marselis/Marselise/Marcelis/Marcelisse/Merselis by Shannon Gorman of 33

Sharon,

I am doubtful about the Pieter Marselis link via Gabriel to Jan Marselis, and Hendrick Marselis. The reason is the naming pattern of his children.

The naming pattern used by both Jan Marselis Van Bommel and Hendrick Marselis as seen through his descendants. Is
1st M paternal GF, 2nd Male MGF, First female Maternal GM.

I have seen Hendrick Marselis called Hendrick Janz in a contract to purchase a yacht (sloop). Jan Marselis uses Jan at first and then Marselis Jans.

The issue of last name is clarified when you know that fixed surnames rather than patronomics were mandated by the english about 1675. Thus Jan Hendrickse & Rykert Jans adopted Van Den Bergh. Matthias Coenradtsen became Mathais Houghtaling, Marte Gerretsen became Van Bergen. Van Bommel became Knickerbocker etc.

As to the others I think there are hints but no clear evidence. I cited both as having a child with the uncommon name of Zytie as one. Hendrick Marselis came with a servant and fled with him and his two daughters and wife to Albany following the Pavilonia Massacre. I have seen an instance where a family used a younger brother as an indentured servant. Indenturement was a common way to pay for passage in the colony. So perhaps Jan Marselis came with up river with Hendrick. He then was a tavern operator in Catskill circa 1661 and later became a settler of Schenectady.

Only one of Jan's children was a bapismal sponsor of my ancestor Rykert Jans VD. Judik Marselis. He was closely allied with the Houghtaling's and Van Bergen's. Hendrick VD was probabley named for Hendrick Marselis. And Maria Vd was probabley named for his daughter who married Mathias C. Houghtaling. The other folks lived in close proximity to each other in either southern Albany or northern Coxsackie along the river. So perhaps the distance from Schenectady prevented more cross family association?

If they had a common parent then :

First Male child would be after a common Paternal GF. Hendrick had no male children. But Jan M. had Gerret and Gysbert. Gerret was the second anmed after his mother's father. But thought Matthias line and Rykert VD's line. We see the names of the males, 1st Conradt, 3rd Hendrick, 2nd Jacob, .

Pieter's first child was named after Marselis and Pieter. Second male Hessel. So I suspect there is no confirmation there. The female lines are problematic as well. They have nothing in common with the others.

If Zytie Marselis was the second daugther of Jan, Judik was fourth, Hubertie appears to be first Annetje 3rd.
Then Zytie would have been named after a paternal GM. Similiarly if Matthias Houghtalings, first daugther was Zytie then she was named after her mother's grandmother. Her sister was named after her father's mother and the third daughter Rachel was named again for someone in the female line.

Now I suppose if Pieter were the son of Maria Pipearts the name Maria would arise.

Hendrick's other daugther's name is not known but if it were would it be Rachel or Zytie? Could Zytie be named an aunt who passed away?


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