Big changes have come to Genealogy.com — all content is now read-only, and member subscriptions and the Shop have been discontinued.
 
Learn more


Chat | Daily Search | My GenForum | Community Standards | Terms of Service
Jump to Forum
Home: Surnames: Mogridge Family Genealogy Forum

Post FollowupReturn to Message ListingsPrint Message

Re: Charles Thomas Mogridge 1755-1841
Posted by: Martin Mogridge Date: December 19, 1999 at 02:25:25
In Reply to: Re: Charles Mogridge 1784 by Virginia Parmenter of 101

Ancestry of Charles Thomas Mogridge (1755-1841)

This note contains the ancestry of Charles Thomas Mogridge who emigrated to America in 1827, back to the Mogridges who were established in Exeter by 1490. It also contains some notes on the Mogridge arms.

According to a history of the Mogridge family by Charles Edward Mogridge Hudson (CEMH) “The Manors of Wike Burnell and Wyke Waryn in the County of Worcester” (Privately printed, 1901), Charles Thomas Mogridge who emigrated to America was born on September 16 1755. The IGI gives him as being christened on that day.

He married Mary Benet, grand-daughter of the 3rd Earl Tankerville (according to CEMH). She must therefore be the daughter of Lieutenant-General Henry Astley Benet, born 3 April 1757 and died 1815, only brother of the fourth Earl, but I have not found her mother or any proof that this relationship is correct. She would have been born about 1782 and died 1843. CEMH says she was courted by her cousin (Charles Benet, Lord Ossulston, born 28 April 1776, later the fifth Earl) before his marriage in 1806, but rejected him.

CEMH gives the following family: Charles, Matthias, Mary, Louisa and Sarah Eliza. The IGI shows christening (X) records for Charles and Mary’s children at St Andrew, Holborn for Elizabeth (X April 3 1785), Mary Eleanor (X February 11, 1787), Anne Dowley (X August 24 1788), and Charles Thomas (X July 18 1790), and at Lady Huntingdon’s, Spa Fields, for Matthias (X January 16 1803), Sarah Eliza (X June 16 1805), and George (X October 18 1807). Spa Fields is in Clerkenwell, next to Holborn (and now the home of the Family Research Centre!). The IGI also gives an ancestral record of Charles Thomas’s family with the following children with birth dates (B): George (B 21 September 1807), Matthias (B 1793), Louisa (B August 14 1810); Lydia (B about 1812), Kate (B about 1814), Sallie (B abt 1816), and Betsy (B about 1818). The latter four are all given as dying in Pennsylvania, but the birth dates are obviously speculative. No mention of Charles, and Matthias’s birth date is ten years too early.

CEMH also states that Charles Thomas emigrated with his family in 1827 - when he was 72! All except for Sarah Eliza, who wanted to marry Joseph Dunn, of Gray’s Inn, Barrister-at-Law, and formerly of the Royal Horse Artillery. Her father had insisted she come as well, and locked her in the ship’s cabin. She escaped out the stern port as the ship lay in the Thames, eloped with her lover and married him at Shoreditch church nearby. While I have not been able to trace the marriage yet, I have found their first son Joseph Thomas Holt Dunn was christened on 28 February 1830 at St Andrew’s Holborn, so this corroborates the dates.

CEMH appears to be wrong in stating that Charles Thomas’s son Charles Thomas emigrated to America with the rest of the family, since the IGI shows Charles Thomas marrying Elizabeth Field on November 21, 1812 at Bromley (South East London) and having the following children christened at Lady Huntingdon’s, Spa Fields: George Thomas (X December 3, 1815), Ellin (Magridge) (X 15 March 1818), Charles (X June 4, 1820), Joseph Field (December 21, 1823), and Elizabeth (X December 26, 1824). Charles Thomas died on June 17, 1855 in Islington, and his wife Elizabeth on July 3,1860, in Barnsbury nearby.

If it is true that Charles Thomas married Mary Benet, then he must have married another Mary for his Holborn family. Since one child is called Anne Dowley, I suspect that she was either called Mary Dowley, or that was her mother’s name. I cannot find this marriage either. If it is true that Charles Thomas fathered children from 1785 (when he was 30) to 1818 (when he was 63), it could not have been by one woman over a range of 33 years - with a gap of 13 years (1790-1803) in the middle. One will have to look at the death records of St Andrew’s Holborn to see if the first Mary died there.

As to Charles Thomas’s parentage, CEMH gives the following ancestry:

Charles Thomas was the 8th child of Anthony Mogridge and Mary Kings who married on August 24 1738 according to CEMH. Anthony was vicar of himbleton, Worcester and died in 1766. The other 10 children were: Mary (1739), Nancy (1743), Dorothy (1745), John (1747), Matthias (1750), Andrew Ballen (1751), Eliza (1753), {Charles Thomas (1755)}, Samuel Renatus (1757), and twins Henry and Sarah (1760). These can be traced in the IGI. himbleton is 7 miles NE of Worcester.

Samuel Renatus, the 9th child, was the first to emigrate to America, having married Henrietta Maria Perry in 1784 in Stoulton, Worcester (One IGI record gives this marriage as Samuel Berratur Magridge, another as Samuel Renatin Mogridge - Renatus of course means reborn). (CEMH says Samuel Renatus died without issue). Charles Thomas’s son Matthias joined his uncle in America and married Lydia there on October 18 1824. If this is right, then Matthias preceded his father to America, and probably encouraged him to emigrate. If Virginia Parmenter is right, Charles Thomas emigrated with his family to America in 1820 (when his daughter Lydia was 10) before Matthias married.

Anthony was christened January 9, 1687 according to the IGI (and was thus 52 when he had his first child), and was the 8th child of Anthony and Sybilla Phillpotts. This Anthony was rector of Martley, Worcs and also an “author of some repute”, according to CEMH, publishing religious works e.g. “Ex Nihile Omnia - or the Saints’ Companion, being a scripture memorial of divine distichs upon the holy bible in English and Latin” in 1692 (In British Library). He died in 1709. Their other 8 children were: Sybilla (1666), Abiah (1889), Theodosea (1672), Susannah (1675), Samuel (1677), Elinore (1681), Margaret (1684), (Anthony 1687)}, and Anne (1689). These can be traced in the IGI. Martley is some 10 miles NW of Worcester.

Anthony was christened May 19, 1638 according to the IGI (and was thus 28 when he had his first child), and was the fourth child of John and Ellinor Carwardine of Madley, Hereford. John was also a religious author, publishing in 1642 “A Divine Meditation upon the Bitter Passion of Christ”. Their other 3 children were: Anne (1622), John (1627), Robert (1635), {and Anthony (1638)}. These can be traced in the IGI. Madley is some 5 miles W of Hereford.

The next ancestor, John, comes from Exeter, according to CEMH, and moved to his wife’s parish on marriage. According to CEMH, he was the son of John and Phillipa Regnell or Rynell, of Ford, near what is now Newton Abbots, in Devon. CEMH gives her as the daughter of Sir Richard Regnell of Ford who was was knighted by Charles 1, September 15 1625 at Ford This marriage is not in the IGI, and nor is Phillipa Reynell (the usual spelling of the name). Nor does this Phillipa appear in the Reynell genealogies I have seen e.g. John Prince “Danmonii Orientales Illustres - or the Worthies of Devon etc” Exeter, 1701 pp 520-522.

However, Richard Reynell appears in the IGI, born in 1556 to Richard Reynell and Agnes Southcott of East Ogwell, so he would be 69 when knighted.. He certainly had a son Richard, christened 21 March 1594, at Wolborough, the parish in which Ford is situated according to the IGI, though he did not survive to bear heirs. Sir Richard’s heiress (whose name I do not know) married Sir William Waller, the founder of the New Model Army in the Civil War. Sir Richard is far too late to be the father of Phillipa, who must have been born around 1570 since her son, John Mogridge could have been christened April 22 1591 at St Sidwell, Exeter (under the name of John Moggridge) and married before 1622.

Phillipa might be the daughter of John Reynell and Alice Lowman, christened March 5, 1569 at the Great House, Newton Abbot, Devon, but the IGI gives the sex as male! I have yet to trace her.

John was also a prolific religious author, publishing “The Bitter Passion of Christ” in 1626 (upon which his son wrote his meditation). I rather suspect that this book, or that of his son, or others they wrote, may have been satirised by the derogatory word “transmogrification”, which according to the OED was first in print in 1656 but whose origin is “obscure”, but I have yet to follow this up.

John and Phillipa Mogridge, according to CEMH, had 2 other children besides John, namely Edward, who does not appear in the IGI, and Mary, who might, since there is an entry Marie (1598), born in the parish of Holy Trinity, Exeter. Thus John might be the John Moggerige christened 1591 in Holy Trinity, rather than the John Moggridge christened 1591 in St Sidwell, Exeter, both of whom have a father John. However, there is a John Mogrige who married Ann Shrow on 22 September 1588 at Holy Trinity Exeter and a John Mogri(d)ge who married Sara Roe on 23 April 1615 at Holy Trinity Exeter (who was thus probably the John born in Holy Trinity 1591). So it does not seem if the Holy Trinity Mogridges are the right ones, thus leaving John born 1591 at St Sidwell as a possibility. To prove this requires a lot more work on the Exeter families.

There is a John Mogridge in the 1602 subsidy (W.G. Hoskins - Exeter in the 17th Century - tax and rate assessments 1602-1699 (1957) Devon and Cornwall Record Society, New Series No 2). He was living in the parish of St Martin, one of the only 400 taxpayers in a city of 10,000, and thus one of the richer citizens, as implied by CEMH. Edward, according to CEMH, emigrated to America from London.

John, the husband of Phillipa, is claimed by CEMH as being born in 1560 and died about 1630 (obviously before 1629 if he is not in the Exeter subsidy of 1629 Hoskins - ibid). His father, also John, was thus born c. 1530 and married, according to CEMH, Mary Speke, daughter of William Speke of Kingsbridge, Devon. CEMH claims William was the son of Sir George Speke of White Lackington, Somerset. This Sir George Speke features in the Speke and Luttrell pedigrees since he married Elizabeth Luttrell after 1553, and married again after she died Dorothy Gilbert, dying himself in 1584 (Burke’s Landed Gentry). By neither woman is he recorded as having a son William, so CEMH is again wrong, and far too late. However, the Spekes were a prominent Devon/ Somerset family so there may be a connection.

This John and Mary Speke had two sons, John and Thomas. Thomas Mogridge who died in 1617 and his wife Dorothy who died after 1629, since she is in the 1629 subsidy as the widow of Thomas, (Hoskins ibid. - though John is no longer), are also among the top citizens in wealth, and endowed almshouses for the poor after their deaths.

I know current descendants of the family who have an aural tradition that the family at that time had made their money from piracy, i.e. from buccaneering on the Spanish Main, and capturing Spanish and Portugese gold ships.

John Mogridge, husband of Mary Speke, is claimed by CEMH as the son of Roger, who would thus be born about 1500 and grandson of John who would be born about 1470, but no further details are given. He also claims that John had a considerable amount of land near Plymouth, in Yealimptomim (Yealmpton) and Wednesbury (Wembury), but I have not yet confirmed this. He seems to put the Mogridge farm in Wednesbury, whereas it is 3 miles SW of Tiverton (if it is the same one).

This ancestral John, born about 1470, may be the Mogriche or Mogrish who appears in the records of St Katherine’s Priory, Polsloe, Exeter in 1523 (Devon and Cornwall Transactions, vol 70, p. 429).

CEMH claims that the Mogridge lands were forfeited by Anthony Mogridge of Himbleton because he had not collected rents for over 40 years, so that his son John could not inherit the Mogridge lands when Anthony died in 1766. It is certainly true that by 1660 there were no “rich” Mogridges assessed for tax in Exeter (Hoskins ibid.), implying either that the heirs to John and Thomas had moved or if daughters had married. But CEMH also claims that the Mogridges still held the family estate of Mogridge’s farm in 1900. This does not appear to be true of the farm near Tiverton though I have not checked the census records of the occupiers yet. The estates held by the Mogridge’s in the 1873 returns of owners of land in Devon do not include it - only two large holdings are given, at Molland and Ilfracombe.

CEMH also states that these Exeter Mogridges bore arms, as recorded in Thomas’s will (Isaacs (1820) Legacies to the Poor of Exeter, Exeter). They are blazoned as follows: quarterly 1st and 4th party per pale or and azure 3 eagles displayed counterchanged; 2nd and 3rd argent on a fess sable between 3 fleur-de-lys azure 3 mullets or and on a chief engrailed sable 3 lions of the fourth (or). The crest is given as an eagle displayed proper. The motto is: percussus elevor (I am raised up in battle)(I can not remember where I got this motto from).

There is also a record of a Tristram Moggridge of Branford (sic) i.e. Brampford Speke (which is few miles north of Exeter), who disclaimed his arms in the Visitation of Devon and Cornwall on 18 August 1620 at Exeter i.e. refused to pay the levy on bearing arms (C.B. Humphrey-Smith (1997) Armigerous Ancestors, Canterbury, Family History Books, Institute of Heraldic and Genealogical Studies) but I have not yet been able to find what these arms were - or indeed locate Tristram.

The interesting thing about these arms is that the Margradge or Mogradge (sic) arms recorded in the Visitation of Wiltshire in 1623 (Marshall) are blazoned: per pale or and azure 3 eagles displayed with two heads counterchanged. These are given in Burke’s General Armoury (1842) and Papworth’s Ordinary of Arms (1874). There is presumably a connection between the two Mogridge families of Exeter and Salisbury, given the identity of their arms. These Salisbury Mogridges have an extant pedigree which I hope to describe later, starting with John Mogerage of New Sarum (Salisbury) who is recorded in feet fines of 1529. Again we have a Speke connection, since the early Speke arms i.e. before 1440 are blazoned: azure an eagle displayed with two heads or. I suspect a feudal relationship, given that Tristram Mogridge lived in Brampford Speke. I have not discovered what the minor arms of the Exeter Mogridges are (i.e. the arms in the 2nd and 3rd quarters).

As a by the way, George Mogridge (1787-1854), the prolific religious author, was not the brother of Charles Thomas but his nephew by his brother Matthias (1749-1816), the 5th child of Anthony and Mary. George is the only Mogridge in the UK Dictionary of National Biography, and the only Mogridge to have a biography (in fact two) written about him.

C.E. Mogridge Hudson stated that he was hoping to write a history of the Mogridge family, but he seems never to have got round to it. I have not located yet where his records went.

As to the Charles Mogridge born 10 March 1733 in your old family bible, there are two possibilities. The date may have been misread and was in fact 1755. It would be possible for someone born in March to be christened in September as the IGI give (in which case CEMH has the birth date wrong). There seems to be no IGI record for a Charles Mogridge (or any variant) in 1733. Some of the old italic scripts have a really solid and thick horizontal stroke and a practically invisible vertical stroke on the top of the 3 and 5. A 5 can thus be misinterpreted as a 3.

It would be interesting to find out how old the Charles Thomas Mogridge buried in Priceville PA in 1841 was. And whether any of the other data you have for your American family matches CEMH’s data for the English family.

Or else all the above is not relevant to you. If the script was curved as in 3 then 1733 is probably right. Do you know? We are then talking of a different family!


Followups:

Post FollowupReturn to Message ListingsPrint Message

http://genforum.genealogy.com/mogridge/messages/20.html
Search this forum:

Search all of GenForum:

Proximity matching
Add this forum to My GenForum Agreement of Use
Link to GenForum
Add Forum
Home |  Help |  About Us |  Site Index |  Jobs |  PRIVACY |  Affiliate
© 2007 The Generations Network