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Re: Pack family from Germany to PA
Posted by: Ted Pack (ID *****6680) Date: October 14, 2011 at 18:01:08
In Reply to: Pack family from Germany to PA by Melissa Scherrah of 1807

Here's a bit. I will send you a GEDCOM if you like. My program has a bug - there isn't a space between th elast name and the source citations. "Peter Pack1-4" should be "Peter Pack 1-4" with the 1-4 in superscript.

Descendants of Peter Pack - 14 Oct 2011
---------------------------------------

First Generation

1. Peter Pack1-4 was born on 13 May 1787 in Landsweiler, Saarlouis, Saarland, Prussia. He appeared in the census in 1850 in Lower St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1860 in Jefferson, Butler, Pennsylvania. He died in 1873 in Pennsylvania (prob).
Peter and Eva had twins, who married women named Elizabeth in a triple ceremony (the third couple were probably related somehow, but the groom was not a Pack) on September 16, 1851. The Pittsburg Press wrote a long, florid article about the wedding and the couples on September 15, 1901, the day before the three renewed their vows. Google's archives has the article; URL as of August 2010 is

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=AhAbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=kEgEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2256,1816736&dq=pack&hl=en

Excerpts:

The Pittsburgh Press (Pittsburg, PA) - Sunday, Sep 15, 1901, Page 19

TRIPLE WEDDING HAS GLAD SEQUEL FIFTY YEARS LATER

Three Golden Weddings Will Be Celebrated in the Mt. Oliver Roman Catholic Church on Monday

Brides Have Same Christian Name

On September 16, 1851, three young couples were married in old St. Michael's Roman Catholic church, South Side. Tomorrow morning the same couples, now grown old, will celebrate their golden weddings in St. Joseph's Roman Catholic Church, Mt. Oliver. The bridegrooms are John and Andrew Pack, twin brothers, and Matthew Stein. The brides were Miss Elizabeth Hitzler, who married John; Miss Elizabeth Frisch, who married Andrew and Miss Elizabeth Spaniol, who married Matthew.
[...]
The feast which followed was at the Pack Homestead, in Ormsby avenue, Mt. Oliver.
[...]
Mr. and Mrs. Andrew Pack had fourteen children, seven of whom are living. Those living are John, Mrs. Philip Kirstein, Mrs. Mary Hoffman, Peter, Jacob, William and Miss Elizabeth Pack, all of Mt. Oliver.
[...]
On June 24, 1848 the sailing vessel "Aurora landed in New York after a 35 days' voyage from a port in Germany. Among the passengers were John and Andrew Pack, Miss Elizabeth Frisch, her cousin, Miss Elizabeth Spaniol, and Miss Elizabeth Hitzer. In 1849 Mr. Stein came to this country, and all came to Pittsburg and later settled in Mt. Oliver.

[Other sources have the arrival date as June 14, 1848 and the name of the ship as the "Laura".]

They had been neighbors in Germany and lived on adjacent farms there. In 1850 Peter Pack, father of the brothers, built the frame house on Ormsby Avenue, where the [1901] celebration will be held. To this day the old building is pointed out as the Pack Homestead.

==========

In 1850 the family is in Lower St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Peck, Peter, 64, M, Ger
Peck, Eva, 60, F
Peck, Andrew, 23, M
Peck, John, 24, M
(Occupation and BP blank for all save Peter.)

See son John for the 1860 census entry.

I can't find either Peter or Eva in 1870, but I can't find a death record, either.

Peter Pack and Eva Margaretha Holzer were married on 29 Jan 1809 in Landsweiler, Saarlouis, Saarland, Prussia. Eva Margaretha Holzer2,3 was born on 15 Jun 1791 in Landsweiler, Saarlouis, Saarland, Prussia. She appeared in the census in 1850 in Lower St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1860 in Jefferson, Butler, Pennsylvania. She died in 1870 in Jefferson, Butler, Pennsylvania.
I estimated their marriage date and place by assuming Eva was at least 16 at the time, they were married before the twins were born in 1827, and they were still in Prussia at the time. Peter Pack and Eva Margaretha Holzer had the following children:

       +2       i.       John Pack, born in Apr 1827, Prussia; married Elizabeth Hitzler, on 16 Apr 1851, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; died between 1910 and 1920, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).
       +3       ii.       Andrew Pack, born in Apr 1827, Prussia; married Elizabeth Frisch, on 16 Sep 1851, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.



Second Generation

2. John Pack1-3,5-8 (Peter-1) was born in Apr 1827 in Prussia. He appeared in the census in 1850 in Lower St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1860 in Jefferson, Butler, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1870 in Allentown, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1880 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He died between 1910 and 1920 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).
The 1901 article says John and Elizabeth had five children living and three dead, but it did not say who had died.

1860: Jefferson, Butler, Pennsylvania. All HH 134, but I added blank lines between families for clarity.

Pack, John, 33, M, Ger, farmer
Pack, Elisabeth, 32, F, Ger
Pack, Cathern, 7, F, Penn
Pack, Maria, 5, F, Penn
Pack, Conrad, 3, M, Penn
Pack, John, 1, M, Penn

Pack, Andrew, 33, M, Ger, farmer
Pack, Elisabeth, 30, F, Ger
Pack, John, 6, M, Penn
Pack, Maria, 4, F, Penn
Pack, Cathern, 2, F, Penn
Pack, Nichlos, 6/12, M, Penn

Pack, Peter, 73, M, Ger
Pack, Eve, 70, F, Ger


1870: Allentown, Allegheny, Pennsylvania

Peck, John, 45, M, Prussia, coal miner
Peck, Elizabeth, 43, F, Prussia
Peck, Catharine, 18, F, Penn
Peck, Mary, 16, F, Penn
Peck, Conrad, 14, M, Penn
Peck, John, 12, M, Penn
Peck, Andrew, 10, M, Penn
Peck, Nicholas, 8, M, Penn
Peck, Jacob, 4, M, Penn


1880, 31th Ward, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

John Pak, Self, M, Male, W, 53, Prussia, Coal Miner, Pru, Pru
Elisabeth Pak, Wife, M, Female, W, 53, Pru, Keeping House, Pru, Pru
Nicholas Pak, Son, S, Male, W, 16, PA, Blacksmith Apprentice, Pru, Pru
Jakob Pak, Son, S, Male, W, 14, PA, Works In Tube Works, Pru, Pru


In 1900, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania, John and Elizabeth's granddaughter, Catherine Engel, who married a man also named Engel, are sandwiched in between John and Elizabeth and their two sons:

Pack, John, head, M, Apr 1827, Ger, Ger, Ger,
Pack, Elizabeth, wife, F, Jul 1827, Ger, Ger, Ger, imm 1848

Engel, Frank X, head, M, Dec 1865, Ger, Ger, Ger, imm 1893
Engel, Catherina A, wife, F, Nov 1874, Penn, Ger, Ger
Engel, Leona C M, dau, F, May 1899, Penn, Ger, Penn

Pack, Andrew, son, M, Oct 1861, Penn, Ger, Ger
Pack, Nickolas, son, M, Dec 1863, Penn, Ger, Ger

John and Elizabeth have been married for 51 years. They both immigrated in1848.

Frank and Catherina have been married for 4 years. He immigrated in 1893.


1910, Mt Oliver Ward 1, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Pack, John, head, M, 83, Ger, Ger, Ger, 1848
Pack, Elizabeth, wife, F, 83, Ger, Ger, Ger, 1848

Their son Jacob is in the next household.

Elizabeth made it to 1920, but she is widowed then. John died sometime between 1910 and 1920.

John Pack and Elizabeth Hitzler were married on 16 Apr 1851 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. Elizabeth Hitzler1,3,5-9 was born in Jul 1827 in Prussia. She appeared in the census in 1860 in Jefferson, Butler, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1870 in Allentown, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1880 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She was also known as Hetzler.
She is "Hitzler" in the 1901 article, "Hetzler" on many LDS IGI records.

See son Jacob J for the 1920 census entry.

Elizabeth probably died 1920 - 1930, but I can't find a death record. John Pack and Elizabeth Hitzler had the following children:

       +4       i.       Catherine Pack, born in Oct 1852, Pennsylvania; married Jacob Engel, in 1870/71, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania (prob).
       +5       ii.       Maria Mary Pack, born in 1854/55, Pennsylvania; married Joseph Henger, between 1875 and 1879; died between 1891 and 1899, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).
       +6       iii.       Conrad Pack, born in Sep 1856, Pennsylvania; married Mary Kneidler, in 1880/81.
       7       iv.       John Pack3,5 was born in 1858/59 in Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1860 in Jefferson, Butler, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1870 in Allentown, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He died before 1901.
                     John is not listed among those alive in the 1901 article. I can't find him in 1880. The rest of the boys stayed with the family until their mid-20's at least. So, he almost certainly died before 1901, and he may have died before 1880.
       8       v.       Andrew Pack5,7 was born in Oct 1861 in Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1870 in Allentown, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
                     Andrew says he was born Oct 1861 on the 1900 census, but I would not be surprised if it was Oct 1860, as he is 10 in the 1870 census.
       9       vi.       Nicholas Pack5-7 was born in Dec 1863 in Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1870 in Allentown, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1880 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He was also known as Nickolas.
                     Nicholas was alive in 1900, but I can't find him in 1910 or later.
       +10       vii.       Jacob J Pack, born in Feb 1866, Pennsylvania; married Susanna Kuehner, in 1888/89, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).

3. Andrew Pack1-3,10-12 (Peter-1) was born in Apr 1827 in Prussia. He appeared in the census in 1850 in Lower St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1860 in Jefferson, Butler, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1870 in Lower St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1880 in Lower St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
The 1901 article mentions 14 children, but I can only find 9.

See brother John for the 1860 census entry.

1870: Lower St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Peck, Andrew, 40, M, Prussia, occ. "W. Coal Bank" ???
Peck, Lizzie, 40, F, Prussia
Peck, Nicholas, 10, M, Penn
Peck, Andrew, 7, M, Penn
Peck, Mary, 12, F, Penn


1880, Lower St. Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

(Name, Relation, Marital Status, Race, Age, Birthplace, Occupation, Father's BP, Mother's BP)

Andrew Pack, Self, M, W, 53, Prussia, Coal Miner, Pru, Pru
Elisabetha F. Pack, Wife, M, W, 50, Pru, Keeping House, Pru, Pru
Andrew Pack, Son, S, W, 16, PA, Coal Miner, Pru, Pru
Peter Pack, Son, S, W, 13, PA, Coal Miner, Pru, Pru
Jacob Pack, Son, S, W, 11, PA, At School, Pru, Pru
William Pack, Son, S, W, 8, PA, At School, Pru, Pru
Elisa Pack, Dau, S, W, 6, PA, At School, Pru, Pru


1900: Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania

Pack, Andreas, head, M, b. Apr 1827, Ger, Ger, Ger
Pack, Elizabeth, wife, F, b. Jan 1830, Ger, Ger, Ger
Pack, Andrew, son, M, b. Sep 1862, 37, Penn, Ger, Ger

Andreas and Elizabeth have been married 49 years. Both immigrated in 1848.

The HH numbers have been corrected on the page; Peter, at the top, was 259, which has been crossed out and 268 written above. The households with their corrected numbers are:

268 - Peter, son of Andrew
269 - Mary Hoffman, widowed daughter of Andrew
270 - Andrew the father; Andrew is using "Andreas" this year
271 - William, son of Andrew
271 - Phillip Kirstein and Catherine, son-in-law and daughter of Andrew
272 - John Holzwarth
273 - John Pack, b. Apr 1872, wife Lizzie, sons Charles, Howard and Louis (???)
274 - Christian Pack, b. March 1870, wife Mary, children Christian Jr, Margaret, Clara (???)


1827 Andrew's twin brother John is still in Mt. Oliver in 1910, but Andrew isn't. I assume Andrew and Elizabeth died 1901 - 1910. I haven't found a death record.

Andrew Pack and Elizabeth Frisch were married on 16 Sep 1851 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. Elizabeth Frisch1,3,10-12 was born in Jan 1830 in Prussia. She appeared in the census in 1860 in Jefferson, Butler, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1870 in Lower St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1880 in Lower St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. Andrew Pack and Elizabeth Frisch had the following children:

       11       i.       John Pack1,3 was born in 1853/54 in Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1860 in Jefferson, Butler, Pennsylvania.
                     The 1901 article said John had a daughter, Tillie, but I can't find them in 1870, 1880 or 1900.
       +12       ii.       Maria Mary Pack, born in Apr 1857, Pennsylvania; married John Hoffman, between 1873 and 1875, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).
       +13       iii.       Catherine Pack, born in Jan 1858, Pennsylvania; married Phillip Kirstein, in 1879/80.
       14       iv.       Nicholas Pack1,3,10 was born in 1859/60 in Jefferson, Butler, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1860 in Jefferson, Butler, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1870 in Lower St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He died before 1901.
                     Nicholas is not in th elist of children still living in the 1901 Golden Anniversary piece; if it is accurate, he died before 1901. I can't find him in 1880.
       15       v.       Andrew Pack1,10-12 was born in Sep 1862 in Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1870 in Lower St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1880 in Lower St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He died in 1900/1 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).
                     Andrew is not in the list of children still living in the 1901 Golden Anniversary piece; if it is accurate, he died before 1901. Since he is on the 1900 census, he died after it was taken and before the article was written.

       +16       vi.       Peter Pack, born in May 1867, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania; married Margaret (Unknown), in 1892/93; died between 1920 and 1930, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).
       +17       vii.       Jacob Pack, born in Jan 1869, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania; married Catherine (Unknown), in 1891/92, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).
       +18       viii.       William Pack, born in Sep 1871, Lower St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; married Mary (Unknown), in 1895/96, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).
       19       ix.       Elizabeth Elisa Pack1,11 was born in 1873/74 in Lower St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1880 in Lower St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
                     Parents were in Lower St. Clair in 1870 and 1880, so I'm assuming she was born there.

                     The 1901 article says she is "Miss Elizabeth Pack" in 1901. I found a Lizzie Peck living in Pittsburgh Ward 23, Allegheny, Pennsylvania in 1900. She is a servant in the house of Lenard Martin, a baker. He has a wife, 3 children, 8 boarders and three other servants. Lizzie is single, b. Jul 1873, in Pennsylvania, both parents b. Germany. It could be her. More research needed.





Third Generation

4. Catherine Pack1,3,5,7,13-15 (John-2, Peter-1) was born in Oct 1852 in Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1860 in Jefferson, Butler, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1870 in Allentown, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1880 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
See Thomas Weise, husband of daughter Elinore, for the 1920 census entry.

Catherine Pack and Jacob Engel were married in 1870/71 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania (prob). Jacob Engel1,7,13,14 was born in Jun 1849 in Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1880 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He died between 1910 and 1920 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).
The 1901 golden Anniversary article says Jacob and Catherine had children John, Catherine, Lizie, Maggie, Andrew, Nora, Celestine and Cornelius. John and "Katie" are there in 1880. The 1900 children start with Maggie. Assuming the birth order is right in the 1901 article, "Lizie" was born after 1880 and married or dead before 1900.


1880, 27th Ward, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania

Jacob Engel, Self, M, Male, W, 33, PA, Coal Miner, PA, PA
Katie Engel, Wife, M, Female, W, 28, PA, At Home, PA, PA
John Engel, Son, S, Male, W, 9, PA, At School, PA, PA
Katie Engel, Dau, S, Female, W, 6, PA, At School, PA, PA


1900, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania

Engel, Jacob, head, M, Jun 1849, Penn, Ger, Ger, coal miner
Engel, Catherina, wife, F, Oct 1852, 1870, Penn, Ger, Ger
Engel, Maggie H, dau, F, Aug 1881 Penn, Penn, Penn
Engel, Andrew W, son, M, Jun 1885, Penn, Penn, Penn
Engel, Elenore E, dau, F, Apr 1889, Penn, Penn, Penn
Engel, Celestine M, dau, F, Mar 1891, Penn, Penn, Penn
Engel, Carnelius J, son, M, Apr 1894, Penn, Penn, Penn
Dietule, Leateta C, Gr-dau, Apr 1895, Penn, Penn, Penn

Jacob and Catherine have been married for 30 years.


1910, Carrick Borough, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Enger, Jacob, head, M, 60, Penn, Ger, Ger, miner, coal
Enger, Catherine, wife, F, 57, Penn, Ger, Ger,
Enger, Celstine, dau, F, 19, Penn, Penn, Penn, clerk, office
Enger, Cornelious, son, M, 16, Penn, Penn, Penn, laborer, mill

They have been married for 39 years.

Catherine is widowed in 1920. Catherine Pack and Jacob Engel had the following children:

       +20       i.       John Engel, born in 1870/71, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania; married Mary B Kuchner, in 1892/93, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob); died between 1921 and 1929, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).
       +21       ii.       Catherine Engel, born in 1873/74, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania; married Frank X Engel, in 1895/96, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob); died between 1911 and 1919, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).
       +22       iii.       Elizabeth Engel, born in Jun 1877, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania; married (Unknown) Dieterle, between 1893 and 1895, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob); married Vincent P. Schnieder, in 1899/1900, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).
       23       iv.       Margaret (Maggie) Engel1,7 was born in Aug 1881 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       +24       v.       Andrew W Engel, born in Jun 1885, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania; married Eleanor K (Unknown), in 1908/9, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).
       +25       vi.       Elinore (Nora) Engel, born in Apr 1889, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania; married Thomas Weise, in 1907/8, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).
       26       vii.       Celestine M. Engel1,7,14 was born in Mar 1891 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       +27       viii.       Cornelius Engel, born in Apr 1894, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania; married Laura M. (Unknown), in 1916/17, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).

5. Maria Mary Pack1,3,5,16 (John-2, Peter-1) was born in 1854/55 in Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1860 in Jefferson, Butler, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1870 in Allentown, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1880 in Lower Saint Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She died between 1891 and 1899 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).

Maria Mary Pack and Joseph Henger were married between 1875 and 1879. Joseph Henger1,16 was born in 1853/54 in Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1880 in Lower Saint Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. Maria Mary Pack and Joseph Henger had the following children:

       28       i.       Catherine Henger1,16 was born in 1878/79 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1880 in Lower Saint Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She was also known as Katharina.

6. Conrad Pack1,3,5,17-20 (John-2, Peter-1) was born in Sep 1856 in Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1860 in Jefferson, Butler, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1870 in Allentown, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Lower Saint Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Redwood City, San Mateo, California.
Children mentioned in the 1901 Golden Anniversary are Catherine, Christian, Rosie, Alphonse, Mamie and Harry. I found them in 1900:

Lower Saint Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania

Pack, Conrad, head, M, Sep 1856, Penn, Ger, Ger, laborer in mill
Pack, Mary, wife, F, Mar 1862, Penn, Ger, Ger
Pack, Kate, dau, F, May 1883, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, John C, son, M, Sep 1884, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Rosie, dau, F, Feb 1890, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Peter A, son, M, Feb 1892, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Mary, dau, F, Oct 1893, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Peter H, son, M, Oct 1895, Penn, Penn, Penn

Conrad and Mary have been married for 20 years.


1910, Saint Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

(As INDEXED, not as written or as they should be written.)

Park, Conrad, head, M, 52, Penn, Ger, Ger, labor mill
Park, Mary, wife, F, 48, Penn, Ger, Ger, none
Park, Alphonsa, son, M, 18, Penn, Penn, Penn, clerk, RR
Park, Rose, dau, F, 20, Penn, Penn, Penn, none
Park, Maria, dau, F, 16, Penn, Penn, Penn, saleslady, dept. store
Park, Harry, son, M, 14, Penn, Penn, Penn, barber
Park, Erlen, son, M, 3, Penn, Penn, Penn

Conrad and Mary have been married for 29 years. Estella and Isabella, the twins who show up in 1920, are either somewhere else, or didn't get enumerated, or are really adopted, not biological daughters.


1920, Saint Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Pack, Conrad, head, head, M, 61, Widowed, Penn, Prussia, Pru, labor steel mill
Pack, Rose, dau, F, 29, Penn, Penn, Penn, none
Pack, Mayme, dau, F, 26, Penn, Penn, Penn, assorter, Laundry
Pack, Harry, son, M, 24, Penn, Penn, Penn, shipper, railroad
Pack, Estella, dau, F, 16, Penn, Penn, Penn, errand girl, Dept. Store
Pack, Isabella, dau, F, 16, Penn, Penn, Penn, errand girl, Dept. Store
Pack, Urban, son, M, 13, Penn, Penn, Penn, none


In 1930 most of them are in Redwood City, San Mateo, California:

Pack, Conrad, head, 65, Penn, Penn, Penn, flagman, railroad
Pack, Rose, dau, 40, Penn, Penn, Penn, none
Pack, Mary, dau, 36, Penn, Penn, Penn, clerk, laundry
Pack, Harry, son, 34, Penn, Penn, Penn, clerk, railroad
[top of next page]
Pack Estelle, dau, 26, Penn, Penn, Penn, clerk, financial ratings
Pack Isabel, dau, 26, Penn, Penn, Penn, clerk, financial ratings
Pack Urban, son, 23, Penn, Penn, Penn, pressman, lithograph


Conrad was registered to vote in Redwood City as late as 1940. I can't find a death record.

Conrad Pack and Mary Kneidler were married in 1880/81. Mary Kneidler1,17-19 was born in Mar 1862 in Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Lower Saint Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She died between 1911 and 1919 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).
Mary's maiden name is
Kneidler in the 1901 article,
Kindler on son Harry Peter's California Death index record,
Knidler on both daughter Rose and daughter Mary's CDI entries.

I cite the 1920 because Conrad is a widow there. Conrad Pack and Mary Kneidler had the following children:

       29       i.       Catherine (Katie) Pack1,17 was born in May 1883 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Lower Saint Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       30       ii.       John Christian Pack1,17 was born in Sep 1884 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Lower Saint Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
                     I can't find him in 1910 or later.
       31       iii.       Rose Mary Pack1,17-22 was born on 13 Feb 1890 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Lower Saint Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Redwood City, San Mateo, California. She died on 6 Dec 1982 in Redwood City, San Mateo, California (LR). She was also known as (Rosie).
                     It looks like Rose never married. She and her sister Mary have the same LR in Redwood City on the SSDI. I would not be surprised if they lived in the same house.

                     In 1944 they were both "Miss", both Democrats and both at 424 Hopkins, although Mary was at Hopkins Street and Rose at Hopkins Avenue, in Redwood City.
       +32       iv.       Peter Alphonse Pack, born on 26 Feb 1893, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania; married Birttie George, in 1916/17; died on 7 Jan 1968, San Jose, Santa Clara, California (LR).
       33       v.       Mary Elizabeth (Mamie, Mayme) Pack1,17-20,22-24 was born on 18 Oct 1893 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Lower Saint Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Redwood City, San Mateo, California. She died on 6 Dec 1982 in Redwood City, San Mateo, California (LR).
       34       vi.       Peter Harry Pack1,17-20,25 was born on 15 Oct 1895 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Lower Saint Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Redwood City, San Mateo, California. He died on 2 Oct 1986 in San Mateo County, California.
       35       vii.       Estella Mary Pack18,20,26,27 was born on 20 Aug 1903 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Redwood City, San Mateo, California. She died on 12 Jan 1985 in Calistoga, Napa, California (LR).
                     The California Death Index gave us Estella's married name. Given how rare the Mardon surname is, this is probably Estelle's husband; they are the only two Mardons in Napa County on the CDI. This isn't proof, though. More research needed.

                     SSDI: Mardon, Boyd; 09 Jan 1898 - Nov 1979; LR 94515 (Calistoga, Napa, CA)

                     CDI: Mardon, Boyd Calvin; b. 01/09/1899 in California, d. Napa Co 11/05/1979
       36       viii.       Isabella Pack18,20 was born in 1903/4 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Redwood City, San Mateo, California.
       37       ix.       Urban Pack18-20,28,29 was born on 21 Oct 1906 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Redwood City, San Mateo, California. He died on 22 Sep 1986 in San Jose, Santa Clara, California (LR).

10. Jacob J Pack1,5-9,30 (John-2, Peter-1) was born in Feb 1866 in Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1870 in Allentown, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1880 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Glendale, Los Angeles, California.
Jacob's children from the 1901 article are Edward, Harry, Joseph and Florence; Jacob's wife is not named. I found them in 1900:

Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Pack, Jacob J, head, M, Feb 1866, Penn, Ger, Ger
Pack, Susana, wife, F, Apr 1869, Penn, Penn, Ger
Pack, Edward C, son, M, Oct 1891, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Harry H, son, M, Feb 1894, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Florence, son, Oct 1896, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Joseph N, son, M, Oct 1899, Penn, Penn, Penn
Didion, Jacob, Adopted son, M, Oct 1889, Penn, Penn, Penn

Jacob and Susanna have been married for 11 years.

Jacob is too young to be Susana's wife by a previous husband. He could be a nephew; Susanna's death record says her mother's name was Didion.


1910, Mt Oliver Ward 1, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Pack, Jacob J, head, M, 40, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Susanne, wife, F, 40, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Edward C, son, M, 18, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Henry T, son, M, 16, Penn, Penn, Penn
[Looks like Harry P]
Pack, Florencie N, son, M, 13, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Joseph N, son, M, 10, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Marie M, dau, F, 8, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Tucly E, dau, F, 5, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Helda E, dau, F, 2, Penn, Penn, Penn


1920, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Pack, J J, head, head, M, 53, Penn, Ger, Ger, clerk in Grocery store
Pack, Anna, wife, F, 50, Penn United States, Ger
Pack, Joseph, son, M, 20, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Maria, dau, F, 17, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Lucy, dau, F, 15, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Hilda, dau, F, 13, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, John, son, M, 7, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Elizabeth Mother, F, 93, Widowed, Ger, Ger, Ger


1930, Glendale, Los Angeles, California

Pack, Jacob, head, 63, Penn,
Father's BP Schffw** - Germany,
Mother's BP hew**k** - Germany,
Occupation: none

Pack, Susanna, wife, 60, Penn, Penn, Ger
Oshell, Hilda E, dau, 21, Penn, Penn, Penn, retail clerk - grocery
Oshell, Theodore H, gr-son, 1, 8/12, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, John A, son, 18, Penn, Penn, Penn, retail clerk - grocery

Jacob was 22 at first marriage, Susanna 19.
Hilda was 19 at first marriage too. Her status is "Married", but Mr. Oshell isn't there.

Jacob's wife, Susanna, daughter Hilda and son John are all on the 1940 - 1997 California Death Index, but Jacob isn't. The voter registrations (See daughter Hilda for the details) suggest he died 1934 - 1936.

Jacob J Pack and Susanna Kuehner were married in 1888/89 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob). Susanna Kuehner7-9,30-33 (daughter of Phillip Kuehner and Eva Didion) was born on 27 Apr 1869 in Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1880 in Lower Saint Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Glendale, Los Angeles, California. She died on 7 Mar 1943 in Los Angeles County, California. She was also known as Kuchner.
We have these choices of maiden name for Susanna, from their California death records.
Daughter Hilda Pack Oshell - Kuhn
Son John Pack - Kuehner
Son Harry Pack - Kuehner
Susanna herself - Kuchner.

You will note that if the first "e" looked like a "c", you'd get "Kuchner" instead of "Kuehner".

Jacob J Pack and Susanna Kuehner had the following children:

       +38       i.       Edward C. Pack, born in Oct 1891, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania; married Clara (Unknown), in 1914/15, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).
       +39       ii.       Harry P Pack, born on 2 Feb 1894, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania; married Mary Clarke, in 1914/15; died on 24 Feb 1964, Los Angeles County, California.
       +40       iii.       Florence Pack, born in Oct 1896, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania; married Catherine (Unknown), in 1916/17, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).
       +41       iv.       Joseph Nicholas Pack, born on 3 Oct 1899, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; married Alma C Grauf, in 1921/22, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).
       42       v.       Mary Maria Pack8,9 was born in 1902/3 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       43       vi.       Lucy Pack8,9 was born in 1904/5 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       +44       vii.       Hilda Pack, born on 28 May 1907, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania; married (Unknown) O'Shell, in 1928, Pennsylvania (prob); died on 28 Jun 1984, Los Angeles County, California.
       45       viii.       John Pack9,30,32,34 was born on 10 Aug 1912 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Glendale, Los Angeles, California. He died on 12 Jan 1980 in Los Angeles County, California.
                     John lived with his parents and sister, then his sister, until at least 1952, according to the California Voter Registration. He was either unmarried during that time or his wife didn't register.

12. Maria Mary Pack1,3,10,12,35-37 (Andrew-2, Peter-1) was born in Apr 1857 in Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1860 in Jefferson, Butler, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1870 in Lower St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
The 1901 artice mentions Mrs. Mary Hoffman, with children John, George and Phillip Hoffman. In 1900 they are in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Hoffman, Mary, head, F, Apr, 1857, Widowed, Penn, Ger, Ger, none
Hoffman, John, son, M, Jul, 1876, Penn, Penn, Penn, day laborer
Hoffman, George, son, M, Aug, 1878, Penn, Penn, Penn, mill labor
Hoffman, Phillip, son, M, Aug, 1881, Penn, Penn, Penn, day laborer

If the citation looks familiar, it is because Mary is the HH just above her parents, Andreas and Elizabeth Pack.

See son John for the 1910 census entry.


1920, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Hoffman, Mary E, Head, 63, Widowed, Penn, Germany, Ger
Hoffman, John E, son, 42, Penn, Penn, Penn, laborer Dept. Store
Hoffman, George E, son, 40, Penn, Penn, Penn


Mary is living with her sister, Catherine Pack Kirstein, in 1930. Her sons vanish into the sea of Hoffmans. I can't find them.

Maria Mary Pack and John Hoffman were married between 1873 and 1875 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob). John Hoffman1,38 was born in 1854/55 in Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1880 in West Liberty, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He died between 1881 and 1900 in Pennsylvania (prob).
John probably died about 1881 - 1883, given the customs of the times, which meant a child every 2 - 3 years and the fact his youngest son was born in 1881. All we know for sure is that he was alive in 1880 and Mary is widowed in 1900.

I estimated the marriage year by assuming Mary was at least 16 when she wed, and they were married when John was born in 1876.


This looks like them In 1880, West Liberty, Allegheny, Pennsylvania

(Name, Relation, Marital Status, Race, Age, Birthplace, Occupation, Father's BP, Mother's BP)

John G. Hoffman, Self, M, W, 60, Bavaria, Farmer, Bav, Bav
Rosina Hoffman, Wife, M, W, 50, Bav, Keeping House, Bav, Bav
John Hoffman, Son, M, W, 25, PA, Coal Miner, Bav, Bav
George Hoffman, Son, S, W, 23, PA, Coal Miner, Bav, Bav
Jacob Hoffman, Son, S, W, 15, PA, Coal Miner, Bav, Bav
Mary Hoffman, DauL, M, W, 24, PA, At Home, Prussia, Prussia
John Hoffman, GSon, S, W, 2, PA, At Home, PA, PA
George Hoffman, GSon, S, W, 9M, PA, At Home, PA, PA

This isn't 100% sure, because the John's and George's ages are off by two from the 1900 entry; but
1) Her name and all three BP's match
2) Her age matches 1900
3) John's and George's names match 1900 and the article
4) John and George are 2 years apart, sort of, if John is really 2 and 9 months.
5) Most of the family worked as coal miners in 1880.

John is the only son who is married. Maria Mary Pack and John Hoffman had the following children:

       46       i.       John Hoffman1,12,35,36,38 was born in Jul 1876 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1880 in West Liberty, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
                     Mt Oliver Ward 2, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

                     Hoffman, John E, head, 33, Penn, Penn, Penn, labor, coffee house
                     Hoffman, George, brother, 31, Penn, Penn, Penn, labor, odd jobs
                     Hoffman, Mary E, mother, 53, Widowed, Penn, Germany, Ger

                     Mary has borne 4 children, but only 2 survive.

                     The Hoffmans are HH 256, at 141 Anthony Street. Mary's brother, Peter Pack, is next door at HH 255 and 139 Anthony Street.
       47       ii.       George Hoffman1,12,35,36,38 was born in Aug 1878 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1880 in West Liberty, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
                     See brother John for the 1910 census entry.
       48       iii.       Phillip Hoffman1,12 was born in Aug 1881 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He died between 1900 and 1910.
                     Phillip's mother, Mary, is living with two of her sons in 1910. If the "4/2" (4 children born, 2 living) is accurate, Phillip died 1900 - 1910.

13. Catherine Pack1,3,12,35,37,39,40 (Andrew-2, Peter-1) was born in Jan 1858 in Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1860 in Jefferson, Butler, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1880 in Lower Saint Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She was also known as Katherine.
1910, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Kierstein, Katherine, head, 51, Widowed, Penn, Germany, Ger
Kierstein, Edward, son, 28, Penn, Penn, Penn, laborer, steel mill
Kierstein, Andrew, son, 25, Penn, Penn, Penn, laborer, forge works
Kierstein, Alexander, son, 22, Penn, Penn, Penn, Toy/Toby Maker, at home
Kierstein, Elmer, son, 20, Penn, Penn, Penn, laborer, forge works
Kierstein, Zwilla, dau, 18, Penn, Penn, Penn, none
Kierstein, Florentine, son, 16, Penn, Penn, Penn, Buy In (?), Glass House
Kierstein, Theodor, son, 14, Penn, Penn, Penn
Kierstein, Stella, dau, 11, Penn, Penn, Penn
Kierstein, Gerard, son, 9, Penn, Penn, Penn

Bach, Aloysius, son-in-Law, 24, Ger, Ger, Ger, Puddler, steel works
Bach, Cecelia, dau, 29, Penn, Penn, Penn
Bach, Katharine, dau, 2, Penn, Penn, Penn
Bach, Edward, son, 1, 7/12, Penn, Penn, Penn

Katherine has borne 11 children; 10 survive.
Aloysius and Ceclia have been married for 3 years.
He immigrated in 1892.
The two Bach children are grandchildren. The age is as of last birth day, so Katherine is probably 2 years and many months old.


1920, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Kirstein, Catharine head head, 62, Widowed, Penn Germany, Ger
Kirstein, Andrew, son, 34, Penn, Penn, Penn, laborer, Plumbing Co.
Kirstein, Cyrilla, dau, 27, Penn, Penn, Penn
Kirstein, Florence, dau [sic], 26, Penn, Penn, Penn, laborer, steel works
Kirstein, Gerard, son, 19, Penn, Penn, Penn, printer, printing estab
Kirstein, Stella, dau, 21, Penn, Penn, Penn, clerk, dept store
Bache, Catharine, Niece, 12, Penn, Penn, Penn

Catharine there is a granddaughter, as 1910 and 1930 prove.


1930, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Kirstine, Catherine, head, 72, Penn
Kirstine, Andrew, son, 46, laborer, own shop
(? Seems odd, but that is what it says.)
Kirstine, Cyrilla T, dau, 38, none
Kirstine, Florence W, son, 36, store keeper, own shop
Hoffman, May E, sister, 73, Penn, none
Bach, Edward S, boarder, 21, Penn, barber, own shop
Bach, Catherine C, boarder, 23, Penn, nurse, private home

Edward and Katherine are grandchildren, as 1910 proves.

Catherine Pack and Phillip Kirstein were married in 1879/80. Phillip Kirstein1,12,35,40 was born in Nov 1855 in Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1880 in Lower Saint Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He died between 1900 and 1910 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).
1880, Lower St. Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania

(Name, Relation, Marital Status, Race, Age, Birthplace, Occupation, Father's BP, Mother's BP)

Phillip Kirstein, Self, M, W, 24, PA, Coal Miner, C. Hessen, C. Hessen
Katharina Kirstein, Wife, M, W, 22, PA, Keeping House, C. Hessen, C. Hessen


The 1901 article mentions "Mrs. Philip Kirstein", with children Celia, Edward, Andrew, Sanders, Albert, Stella, Sirylla, Theodore, Florentine and Gerhart.

1900, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Kirstein, Phillip, head, M, Nov 1855, Penn, Ger, Ger, day laborer
Kirstein, Catherina, wife, F, Jan 1858, Penn, Ger, Ger
Kirstein, Cecilia C, dau, F, Dec 1880, Penn, Penn, Penn
Kirstein, Edward A, son, M, Oct 1881, Penn, Penn, Penn
Kirstein, Andrew, son, M, Oct 1885, Penn, Penn, Penn
Kirstein, Alexander, son, M, Aug 1887, Penn, Penn, Penn
Kirstein, Elmer A, son, M, Nov 1889, Penn, Penn, Penn
Kirstein, Cyrella R, dau, F, Mar 1892, Penn, Penn, Penn
Kirstein, Florintin, son, M, Oct 1894, Penn, Penn, Penn
Kirstein, Theodore, son, M, Aug 1895, Penn, Penn, Penn
Kirstein, Stella E, dau, F, Jan 1899, Penn, Penn, Penn

They have been married for 20 years.

The Kirsteins are HH 261, corrected to 272. The HH just above them is William Pack, Catherine's brother, and the one above William is Andreas and Elizabeth, their parents.

I cite the 1910 because Catherine is a widow on it, which points to Phillip dying 1900 - 1910. From the way the children stop, his death was probably closer to 1900 than 1910.
Catherine Pack and Phillip Kirstein had the following children:

       +49       i.       Cecilia C Kirstein, born in Dec 1880, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania; married Aloysius Bach, in 1906/7, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob); died between 1910 and 1919, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).
       50       ii.       Edward A Kirstein1,12,35 was born in Oct 1881 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
                     The RWWC database "Tobolski/Nowicki Genealogy" says Edward die din 1914. I can't find a death record.
       51       iii.       Andrew Kirstein1,12,35,37,39,41 was born on 23 Oct 1885 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
                     Andrew filled out a draft card in 1942. On it he said a person who would always know where he was would be Mrs. Cyrilla Kirstein. They both lived at 246 Anthony Street.

                     So, either
                     1) He married a woman with the same name as his sister
                     2) She should have been "Miss"
                     3) None of the above.
                     In any event, we got his exact birth date.
       +52       iv.       Alexander Peter (Sanders) Kirstein, born on 8 Aug 1887, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania; married Anna (Unknown), between 1917 and 1920; died in May 1969, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania (LR).
       +53       v.       Elmer Alexander Kirstein, born on 25 Nov 1889, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania; married Anna M (Unknown), in 1918/19, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob); died in Oct 1970, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania (LR).
       54       vi.       Cyrilla Kirstein1,12,35,37,39,42 was born on 6 Mar 1892 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She died in Oct 1981 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania (LR).
                     This is how her given name is spelled:

                     Cyrella - 1900 Census
                     Sirylla - 1901 Newspaper article
                     Zwilla - 1910 census
                     Cyrilla - 1920 census
                     Cyrilla - 1930 census

                     She was almost 40 and single in 1930. There are not a lot of women named Cyrilla. I suspect the Cyrilla I found on the SSDI who died as a Kirstein in 1981 is ours, and she never married.
       55       vii.       Florence William Kirstein1,12,35,37,39 was born on 8 Oct 1893 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He was also known as Florentine.
                     "Florence" runs through this family as a given name for men. I hope he got his growth early. If he was on the small side, his life in the public schools was miserable. Note he is recorded as a daughter in 1920.

                     His birth is Oct 1894 on the 1900 census, 27 Oct 1893 on the SSDI.

                     His WWI draft card has his birth date 8 Oct 1893. He is a bolt maker, single, living at 131 Anthony Street. He is short, slender, with dark brown eyes and dark brown hair.

                     His WWII draft card has 8 Oct again. He is at 246 Anthony Street, and the person who will always know his address is Cyrilla Kirstein, of the same address.

                     The chances of their being two Florence Kirsteins born in October 1893 is small, so I'm going to assume the SSDI entry is his, even though it is 19 days off.
       56       viii.       Theodore John Kirstein1,12,35,43 was born on 8 Aug 1895 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
                     Theodore's WWI draft card gives us his middle name, exact birthday, and the fact he was of medium height and build, with brown hair and blue eyes. He was a pressman at the time, living at 131 Anthony Street.

                     I can't find him in 1920 or 1930.
       57       ix.       Stella Kirstein1,12,35,39 was born in Jan 1899 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
                     I can't find Stella in 1930.
       +58       x.       Gerhart Gerard Kirstein, born on 24 Oct 1900, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania; married Margaretha (Unknown), in 1924/25, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob); died in Nov 1975, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania (LR).

16. Peter Pack1,11,12,35,39 (Andrew-2, Peter-1) was born in May 1867 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1880 in Lower St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He died between 1920 and 1930 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).
Peter isn't on the 1870, but he is 13 in 1880. Either he was missed in 1870, his age is off in 1880 or he was living with relatives somewhere.


Peter has neither wife nor children children listed in the 1901 article, but here he is in 1900 on page 16B, with everyone else:

1900: Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania

Pack, Peter, head, M, May 1867, Penn, Ger, Ger, Mill Worker
Pack, Margreth, wife, F, Aug 1873, Penn, Penn, Ger
Pack, Merseades E, dau, F, Jun 1893, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Andrew S, son, M, Jan 1895, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Cornelius J, son, M, Dec 1897, Penn, Penn, Penn

They have been married 7 years.


1910: Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania
(139 Anthony Street)

Pack, Peter, head, 42, Penn, Germany, Ger, laborer, Steel works
Pack, Margaret, wife, 36, Penn, Penn, Ger
Pack, Mercedes, dau, 16, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Andrew S, son, 15, Penn, Penn, Penn, ***, Glass house
Pack, Cornelius J, son, 13, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Ralph J, son, 10, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Richard W, son, 5, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Norbert, son, 3, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, France W, son, 6/12, Penn, Penn, Penn

They have been married 18 years.


1920: Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania
(139 Anthony Street)

Pack, Peter head, 52, Penn Germany, Ger, laborer, steel works
Pack, Margaret, wife, 46, Penn, Penn Germany
Pack, Mercedes, dau, 26, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Andrew S, son, 24, Penn, Penn, Penn, shipper, dept. store
Pack, Cornelius J, son, 23, Penn, Penn, Penn, engraver, steel stamp co.
Pack, Ralph J, son, 19, Penn, Penn, Penn, bookkeeper, Flor***
Pack, Richard D, son, 15, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Narbeth A, son, 12, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Frances W, son, 10, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, George S, son, 3, Penn, Penn, Penn

Margaret is widowed in 1930.

Peter Pack and Margaret (Unknown) were married in 1892/93. Margaret (Unknown)12,35,39,44 was born in Aug 1873 in Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
She is "Margreth" in 1900. I'm using the standard English spelling.

1930, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania

Pack, Margaret, head, 56, widowed, Penn, Penn, Germany
Pack, Andrew S, son, 35, Penn, Penn, Penn, shipper, dept. store
Pack, Ralph J, son, 29, Penn, Penn, Penn, store keeper,own store
Pack, Norbert A, son, 23, Penn, Penn, Penn, candy maker, candy store
Pack, Francis W, son, 20, Penn, Penn, Penn, waiter, restaurant
Pack, George S, son, 13, Penn, Penn, Penn, none Peter Pack and Margaret (Unknown) had the following children:

       59       i.       Mercedes Pack12,35,39 was born in Jun 1893 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
                     Mercedes is gone in 1930. She is either married or dead. Ancestry doesn't have a good marriage or death data base for Pennsylvania, so I can't tell which.
       60       ii.       Andrew Sylvester Pack12,35,39,44-46 was born on 16 Jan 1895 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He died in Apr 1984 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania (LR).
                     Andrew's WWI draft card gives us his middle name and exact birthday, which matches the SSDI entry. In 1917 he was slim, medium height, grey eyes and sandy haie. He was living at 139 Anthony Street and working as a clerk for Rosenbaum's.
       +61       iii.       Cornelius J. Pack, born on 30 Dec 1896, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania; married Olivia (Unknown), in 1922/23, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob); died in Jun 1977, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania (LR).
       62       iv.       Ralph J Pack35,39,44,47 was born on 20 Nov 1900 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He died in Jan 1988 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania (LR).
                     Ralph isn't as rare as Cornelius, but the SSDI entry I found matches the birthdate on the census, and most of the Pack boys spent their entire lives in Allegheny County. I'd welcome corrections if our Ralph didn't die in January 1988.
       63       v.       Richard W Pack35,39 was born in 1904/5 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       64       vi.       Norbert A Pack35,39,44 was born in 1906/7 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
                     This SSDI entry looks like our Norbert, but maybe not; more research needed.

                     Pack, Norman; 03 Feb 1907 - Sep 1986; LR 15210 (Pittsburgh, Allegheny, PA)
       65       vii.       Francis Pack35,39,44 was born in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       66       viii.       George S Pack39,44 was born in 1916/17 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.

17. Jacob Pack1,11,35,48-50 (Andrew-2, Peter-1) was born in Jan 1869 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1880 in Lower St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
Jacob isn't on the 1870, but he is 11 in 1880. Either he was missed in 1870, his age is off in 1880 or he was living with relatives somewhere.

The 1901 article mentions Jacob and children Marcetta, Andrew and Sylvester.

1900: Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Pack, Jacob A, head, M, Jan 1869, Penn, Ger, Ger, laborer tin mill
Pack, Catherine B, wife, F, Nov 1870, Penn, Ger, Ger
Pack, Loretta M, dau, F, Nov 1894, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Alexander J, son, M, Jan 1898, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Sylvester W, son, M, Sep 1899, Penn, Penn, Penn

They have been married for 8 years.

I went back and checked. The 1901 article says "Marcetta"; the 1900 census says "Loretta". Either
1) The enumerator, reporter or typesetter goofed.
2) Her full name was Marcetta Loretta or Loretta Marcetta (A name so cute you cringe).
3) None of the above.


In 1910 they got recorded as "Heck" for some reason. They are on Anthony Street, right next door to Jacob's brother Peter.

Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Heck, Jacob, head, 42, Penn, Germany, Ger, laborer contractor
Heck, Katharine, wife, 38, Penn Ger, Ger
Heck, Loretta, dau, 15, Penn, Penn, Penn
Heck, Alexander, son, 12, Penn, Penn, Penn
Heck, Sylvester, son, 10, Penn, Penn, Penn
Heck, Cecelia, dau, 8, Penn, Penn, Penn
Heck, Clarence, son, 6, Penn, Penn, Penn
Heck, Helen, dau, 3, Penn, Penn, Penn
Heck, Margaret, dau, 1, 2/12, Penn, Penn, Penn

They have been married for 17 years.
Catherine has borne 9, 7 survive.


1920, St. Claire, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Pack, Jacob A, head, head, 51, Penn, Germany, Ger, laborer, building contractor
Pack, Catherine, wife, 48, Penn, Ger, Ger
Pack, Alexander, son, 22, Penn, Penn, Penn, Labor, steel mill
Pack, Sylvester, son, 20, Penn, Penn, Penn, labor, spike mfg co
Pack, Cecelia, dau, 18, Penn, Penn, Penn,
Cecilia might be a "Packer" or a "Baker" at a "Preserving" or "Processing" house
Pack, Clarence, son, 16, Penn, Penn, Penn, Delivery boy, Department [store?]
Pack, Helen, dau, 14, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Margaret, dau, 11, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Aloysius, son, 7, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Andrew, son, 5, Penn, Penn, Penn


1930, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Pack, Jacob A, head, 61, Penn, labor contractor
Pack, Catherin, wife, 58, Penn
Pack, Alexander, son, 33, Penn, labor, steel mill
Pack, Sylvester, son, 30, Penn, clerk, guest room
Pack, Helen, dau, 23, Penn, clerk, candy factory
Pack, Margarett, dau, 21, Penn
Pack, Aloysius, son, 18, Penn
Pack, Andrew, son, 14, Penn

Jacob Pack and Catherine (Unknown) were married in 1891/92 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob). Catherine (Unknown)35,48-50 was born in Nov 1870 in Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. Jacob Pack and Catherine (Unknown) had the following children:

       67       i.       Loretta Marcetta Pack1,35,48 was born in Nov 1894 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       68       ii.       Alexander Jacob Pack1,35,46,48-50 was born on 3 Jan 1898 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
                     Alexander's WWI draft card gives us his exact birth date and middle name. The rest is illegible, save for blue eyes and light hair.
       69       iii.       Sylvester William Pack1,35,48-50 was born on 30 Sep 1899 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
                     Alexander's WWI draft card gives us his exact birth date and middle name. He is short, medium build, brown eyes, light hair, "almost blind in right eye". He works as a laborer for some sort of light Company - maybe Susquenhena.
       70       iv.       Cecelia Pack35,49 was born in 1901/2 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       +71       v.       Clarence Pack, born in 1903/4, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania; married Anna M (Unknown), in 1926/27, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).
       72       vi.       Helen Pack35,49,50 was born in 1906/7 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       73       vii.       Margaret Pack35,49,50 was born in 1909 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       74       viii.       Aloysius Pack49-51 was born on 9 Mar 1912 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He died in Jun 1980 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania (LR).
                     Aloysius is such a rare name that I am almost certain the one b. 09 Mar 1912 on the SSDI is ours.
       75       ix.       Andrew Pack49 was born in 1914/15 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.

18. William Pack1,11,12,39,52,53 (Andrew-2, Peter-1) was born in Sep 1871 in Lower St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1880 in Lower St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
Parents were in Lower St. Clair in 1870 and 1880, so I'm assuming he was born there.

The 1901 article only mentions William and children Elinora and Celestina.


1900, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania

Pack, William, head, M, Sep 1871, Penn, Ger, Ger, Mill worker
Pack, Mary, wife, F, Jul 1874, Penn, Ger, Ger
Pack, Romania, dau, F, Dec 1894, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Rosellia, dau, F, Nov 1896, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Elonora, dau, F, Dec 1899, Penn, Penn, Penn

They have been married 4 years. In 1910 we find that "Romania", born before then, is a step-daughter, Romina.

William and Mary are HH 260, corrected to 271. The HH just above them is Andreas and Elizabeth, William's parents, and the one below them is Phillip and Catherine Kirstein, William's sister and brother-in-law.


1910, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania

Pack, William A, head, 39, Penn, Germany, Ger, labor, rolling mill
Pack, Mary F A, wife, 35, Ill, Ger, Ger
Pack, Rosella, dau, 13, Penn, Penn, Ill
Pack, Elinor, dau, 10, Penn, Penn, Ill
Fromm, Romina, Step dau, 14, Penn, Penn, Ill

William's marital status is "M1", meaning this is his first. Mary's is "M2". They have been married for 14 years.


1920, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania

Pack, William A, head, head, 46, Penn, Ger, Ger, confectionary store, own place
Pack, Mary F A, wife, 45, Ill, Ger, Ger
Fromm, Romina, dau, 25, Penn, Penn, Ill
Pack, Rosalia, dau, 22, Penn, Penn, Ill, Office clerk, Dental Estab.
Pack, Elinora, dau, 20, Penn, Penn, Ill

William got tired of working the steel mills, I suppose. Romina is back to being a daughter, although her surname is "Fromm" in the images, it has a line through it and they indexed her as a Pack.


1930, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania

Pack William A, head, 58, Penn, Ger, Ger, store keeper, own store
Pack Mary F, wife, 54, Ill, Ger, Ger


William Pack and Mary (Unknown) were married in 1895/96 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob). Mary (Unknown)12,39,52,53 was born in Jul 1874 in Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. William Pack and Mary (Unknown) had the following children:

       76       i.       Rosella Pack12,39,52 was born in Nov 1896 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
                     Rosella gets her name spelled differently each time:

                     1900: Rosellia
                     1910: Rosella
                     1920: Rosalia
       77       ii.       Elinor Pack1,12,39,52 was born in Dec 1899 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She was also known as Elenora, Elonora.



Fourth Generation

20. John Engel1,13,54-56 (Catherine Pack-3, John-2, Peter-1) was born in 1870/71 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1880 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He died between 1921 and 1929 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).
In the 1901 Golden Anniversary article, John married Miss Kuchner and had children Eva, John and Catherine.

1900: Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania

Engel, John J, head, M, Jul 1872, Penn, Penn, Penn
Occupation Salesman, for either "Std Store", "D+d Store" or some other store
Engel, Mary, wife, F, May 1874, Penn, Penn, Ger
Engel, Eva, dau, F, May 1894, Penn, Penn, Ger
Engel, John P, son, M, May 1899, Penn, Penn, Ger

They have been married for 7 years.


1910, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Engel, John J, head, M, 39, Penn, Penn, Penn, Adjuster, Ins. Co.
Engel, Mary, wife, F, 37, Penn, Ger, Ger
Engel, Eva M, dau, F, 15, Penn, Penn, Penn
Engel, Catherine, dau, F, 9, Penn, Penn, Penn
Engel, Vincent P, son, M, 6, Penn, Penn, Penn
Engel, Frank A, son, M, 2, Penn, Penn, Penn

The HH immediately above them has a widowed Eva Kerchner, 68, and two of her daughters. That in turn suggests Mary's maiden name may have been Kerchner, not Kuchner.


1920, Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania

Engel John J, head, head, M, 48, Penn, Penn, Penn, travelling salesman, Auto Ins. Co
Engel Mary B, wife, F, 46, Penn, Penn, Ger
[top of next page]
Eugel Eva M, dau, F, 25, Penn, Penn, Penn, book keeper, Brush Co.
Eugel Catherine S, dau, F, 18, Penn, Penn, Penn, none
Eugel Vincent P, son, M, 15, Penn, Penn, Penn, stenographer, Ins. Co
Eugel Frank A, son, M, 11, Penn, Penn, Penn
Eugel Margaret M, dau, F, 9, Penn, Penn, Penn
Eugel Robert C, son, M, 4, Penn, Penn, Penn


Mary is widowed in 1930, although women whose husbands left them for some reason often said they were widowed; I haven't found a death record for John. I don't suspect philandering, but it is remotely possible.

John Engel and Mary B Kuchner were married in 1892/93 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob). Mary B Kuchner1,54-57 was born in May 1874 in Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
1930, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Engel, Mary, head, 56, Widowed, Penn, Penn, Penn, none
Engel, Eva M, dau, 34, Penn, Penn, Penn, stenographer, wholesale brush co.
Engel, Catherine S, dau, 29, Penn, Penn, Penn, Clerk, Telegraph
Engel, Frank A, son, 22, Penn, Penn, Penn, Life Guard, public Naturium
Engel, Margaret M, dau, 19, Penn, Penn, Penn, stenographer, (illegible)
Engel, Robert C, son, 15, Penn, Penn, Penn, none
John Engel and Mary B Kuchner had the following children:

       78       i.       Eva M Engel1,54-57 was born in May 1894 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       79       ii.       John P Engel1,54 was born in May 1899 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
                     John isn't with the family in 1910; the assumption is that he died young.
       80       iii.       Catherine Engel1,55-57 was born in 1901 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       81       iv.       Vincent P Engel55,56 was born between 1903 and 1905 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       82       v.       Frank A. Engel55-57 was born between 1907 and 1909 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       83       vi.       Margaret M Engel56,57 was born in 1910/11 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       84       vii.       Robert C. Engel56,57 was born in 1915/16 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.

21. Catherine Engel1,7,13,58 (Catherine Pack-3, John-2, Peter-1) was born in 1873/74 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1880 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She died between 1911 and 1919 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).
Catherine either married a cousin, or her spouse's name was a coincidence. He was an Engle too.

She is there in 1910, Frank is widowed in 1920. Sometimes divorced men say they are widowed, but he has all the kids, so I suspect he really is widowed.

Catherine Engel and Frank X Engel were married in 1895/96 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob). Frank X Engel1,7,58,59 was born in Dec 1865 in Germany. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
In 1900 Catherine's grandparents and uncles are all mixed up:

Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania;

Pack, John, head, M, Apr 1827, Ger, Ger, Ger, immigrated 1848
Pack, Elizabeth, wife, F, Jul 1827, Ger, Ger, Ger, imm 1848

Engel, Frank X, head, M, Dec 1865, Ger, Ger, Ger, imm 1893
Engel, Catherina A, wife, F, Nov 1874, Penn, Ger, Ger
Engel, Leona C M, dau, F, May 1899, Penn, Ger, Penn

Pack, Andrew, son, M, Oct 1861, Penn, Ger, Ger
Pack, Nickolas, son, M, Dec 1863, Penn, Ger, Ger

John and Elizabeth have been married for 51 years.
Frank and Catherine have been married for 4 years.

Andrew and Nickolas are John and Elizabeth's sons.


1910, St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Engel, Frank, head, M, 44, Ger, Ger, Ger, church organist
Engel, Cathrine, wife, F, 35, Penn, Penn, Penn
Engel, Leona, dau, F, 10, Penn, Ger, Penn
Engel, Margaret, dau, F, 9, Penn, Ger, Penn
Engel, Francis, son, M, 6, Penn, Ger, Penn
Weise, Andrew Boarder, M, 35, Penn, Ger, Penn, barber

It says they have been married for 13 years, which is about right, but that Frank immigrated in 1904; in 1900 he said he came over in 1893.


1920, St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Engel Frank, head, head, M, 53, Widowed, Ger, Ger, Ger, professor of music
Engel Leona, dau, F, 20, Penn, Ger, Penn, none
Engel Margaret, dau, F, 19, Penn, Ger, Penn, typist, hardware Co.
Engel Francis, son, M, 16, Penn, Ger, Penn, laborer, railroad

This has the 1893 immigration year again.

I can't find him in 1930. Catherine Engel and Frank X Engel had the following children:

       85       i.       Leona C M Engel1,7,58,59 was born in May 1899 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       86       ii.       Margaret Engel1,58,59 was born in 1900/1 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
                     The 1901 Golden Anniversary article mentions two children, Leona and Margaret. I'm assuming the birth order is accurate, and there were really two children by 1901. Leona is "Leona C M" in the 1900 census. If she is Leona Margaret, the 1901 reporter may have made a mistake.
       87       iii.       Francis Engel58,59 was born in 1903/4 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.

22. Elizabeth Engel1,60-62 (Catherine Pack-3, John-2, Peter-1) was born in Jun 1877 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Cleveland, Cuyahoga, Ohio. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
Elizabeth is mentioned in the 1901 Golden Anniversary article, in a list of great grand-children of John Packand Elizabrth:

"Leatta Diterle, daughter of Mrs. Lizzie Engle-Diterle, who is married the second time to Vincent Synder"

We see Leatta with her grandparents Engel in 1900:

Dietule, Leateta C, Gr-dau, Apr 1895, Penn, Penn, Penn

"Synder" is a typo for "Snyder", which had 300 or so variations. The family I foundin Mt. Oliver in 1900 is indexed as "Schurider", with a correction to "Schnieder". It is probably her, but I'm not 100% certain. See Vincent for the census entry.



Elizabeth Engel and (Unknown) Dieterle were married between 1893 and 1895 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob). (Unknown) Dieterle1 was born between 1857 and 1877 in Pennsylvania.
I estimated the marriage date by assuming Elizabeth was at least 16 when they married, and that they were married when Leatta was born.

I estimate dhis birth year by assuming he was 0 - 20 years older than she. Birth state is from Leatta's 1900 census entry. Elizabeth Engel and (Unknown) Dieterle had the following children:

       88       i.       Leatta Dieterle1,7,61,62 was born in Apr 1895 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Cleveland, Cuyahoga, Ohio. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
                     See grandfather Jacob Engel for the 1900 census entry.

Elizabeth Engel and Vincent P. Schnieder were married in 1899/1900 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob). Vincent P. Schnieder1,60-62 was born in Jul 1861 in Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Cleveland, Cuyahoga, Ohio. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
1900, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania

Schurider, Vincent P, head, M, Jul 1861, Penn, Ger, Ger
Schurider, Elizabeth, wife, F, Jun 1877, Penn, Penn, Penn
Schurider, Salmorea Mother, F, Oct 1828, 71, Widowed, Ger, Ger, Ger, imm 1846

They have been married for 0 years.

In 1910 they move to Cleveland, Ward 22, Cuyahoga, Ohio;

Schneider, Vincent P, head, M, 48, Penn, Ger, Ger
Schneider, Elizabeth, wife, F, 32, Penn, Penn, Penn
Schneider, Leoetta, dau, F, 14, Penn, Penn, Penn

They have been married for 10 years.

Vincent is either a stock keeper or a store keeper; the industry might be "Gro" but might not. Vincent has adopted Leoetta, she uses "Schneider" for convenience, or the enumerator made a mistake.


In 1920 they are back; Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Schneider, Vincent P, head, head, M, 58, Penn, Ger, Ger
Schneider, Elizabeth, wife, F, 42, Penn, Penn, Penn
Dieterle, Leaettea Step-dau, F, 24, Penn, Penn, Penn

Vincent is a stock man for a department store. Leatta is a "*** grapher" for a chemical Co. It looks like"Aeleiographer"

I can't find them in 1930.

24. Andrew W Engel1,7,63-65 (Catherine Pack-3, John-2, Peter-1) was born in Jun 1885 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
1910, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Engel, Andrew W, head, M, 24, Penn, Penn, Penn
Engel, Elesnorek, wife, F, 25, Penn, Ger, Ger

Andrew is a merchant in a shoe store. They have been married for one year. Her name is really "Eleanore", which has about 12 spelling variations.


1920, Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Engel, Andrew W, head, head, M, 34, Penn, Penn, Penn
Engel, Eleanor, wife, F, 34, Penn, Ger, Ger
Engel, Ruth, dau, F, 5, Penn, Penn, Penn
He is a retail merchant, shoe store


1930, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Engel, Andrew W, head, 44, Penn, Penn, Penn
Engel, Elinor K, wife, 44, Penn, Ger, Ger
Engel, Ruth M, dau, 15, Penn, Penn, Penn

Andrew owns a shoe store.
They were both 24 at first marriage.

Andrew W Engel and Eleanor K (Unknown) were married in 1908/9 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob). Eleanor K (Unknown)63-65 was born in 1884/85 in Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. Andrew W Engel and Eleanor K (Unknown) had the following children:

       89       i.       Ruth Engel64,65 was born in 1914/15 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.

25. Elinore (Nora) Engel1,7,15 (Catherine Pack-3, John-2, Peter-1) was born in Apr 1889 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She was also known as Elenore, Elonora.

Elinore (Nora) Engel and Thomas Weise were married in 1907/8 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob). Thomas Weise14,15,66 was born in 1873/74 in Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
In 1910, Thomas and "Elonora" are living with her parents, but Jacob and Thomas are both "head". Jacob, Catherine and the two kids are HH 1, family 1, Thomas and Elinore are HH1 family 2.

1910, Carrick, Allegheny, Penn

Weise, Thomas A, head, M, 32, Penn, Ger, Ger, Barber
Weise, Elonora, wife, F, 21, Penn, Penn, Penn

Thomas is either 32 or 37. They have been married for 2 years.


1920, Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania

Weise, Thomas, head, head, M, 46, Penn, Ger, Ger, barber
Weise, Elinor, wife, F, 32, Penn, Penn, Penn
Weise, Dorthy, dau, F, 9, Penn, Penn, Penn
Weise, Alice, dau, F, 6, Penn, Penn, Penn
Weise, Thomas, son, M, 2, Penn, Penn, Penn
Engel, Catherine Mother-in-law, F, 67, Widowed, Penn, Ger, Ger


In 1930 times are hard; Thomas is out of work and it looks like Dorothy is supporting the family. They are in Pittsburgh.

Weise, Thomas A, head, 55, Penn, Wurttemburg Germany, Wurttemburg Germany, none
Weise, Elinor, wife, 41, Penn, Penn, Penn
Weise, Dorothy, dau, 19, Penn, Penn, Penn, stock clerk Dept. Store
Weise, Alice, dau, 15, Penn, Penn, Penn
Weise, Thomas, son, 12, Penn, Penn, Penn
Weise, Loretta, dau, 10, Penn, Penn, Penn
Weise, Rose Mary, dau, 7, Penn, Penn, Penn

Thomas was 35 at first marriage, Elinor 19. Elinore (Nora) Engel and Thomas Weise had the following children:

       90       i.       Dorothy Weise15,66 was born in 1910/11 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       91       ii.       Alice Weise15,66 was born in 1913/14 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       92       iii.       Thomas Weise15,66 was born in 1917/18 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       93       iv.       Loretta Weise66 was born in 1920 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       94       v.       Rose Mary Weise66 was born in 1922/23 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.

27. Cornelius Engel1,7,14,67,68 (Catherine Pack-3, John-2, Peter-1) was born in Apr 1894 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
1920, Saint Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Engel Cornelius, head, head, M, 26, Penn, Penn, Penn, machinist, RR Shop
Engel Laura, wife, F, 29, Penn, Penn, Penn
Engel Laura, dau, F, 5/12, Penn, Penn, Penn


1930, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Engel, Cornelius, head, 36, Penn, Penn, Penn, shipper, cleaning co.
Engel, Laura M, wife, 39, Penn, Penn, Penn
Engel, Laura H, dau, 11, Penn, Penn, Penn
[top of next page]
Engel, Mary E, dau, 8, Penn, Penn, Penn
Engel, James T, son, 5, Penn, Penn, Penn
Engel, Edna E, dau, 3, 1/12, Penn, Penn, Penn
Engel, Robert M, son, 7/12, Penn, Penn, Penn
Davidson, Roy, Lodger, 30, Penn

Cornelius was 23 at first marriage, Laura 27


Cornelius Engel and Laura M. (Unknown) were married in 1916/17 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob). Laura M. (Unknown)67,68 was born in 1890/91 in Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. Cornelius Engel and Laura M. (Unknown) had the following children:

       95       i.       Laura Engel67,68 was born in 1920 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       96       ii.       Mary E Engel68 was born in 1921/22 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       97       iii.       James T Engel68 was born in 1924/25 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       98       iv.       Edna E. Engel68 was born in 1927 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       99       v.       Robert M Engel68 was born in 1929/30 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.

32. Peter Alphonse Pack1,17,19,69-72 (Conrad-3, John-2, Peter-1) was born on 26 Feb 1893 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Lower Saint Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Redwood City, San Mateo, California. He appeared in the census in 1930 in San Francisco, San Francisco, California. He died on 7 Jan 1968 in San Jose, Santa Clara, California (LR).
Peter's 1900 census entry says he was born Feb 1892; his California Death Index entry says 26 Feb 1893, and his SSDI 26 Feb 1892.

In 1920 he and Birttie are in Redwood City, San Mateo, California:

Pack, Alphons D, head, head, M, 27, Penn, Penn, Penn, Supt. Steel Mill
Pack, Birttie, wife, F, 28, Mo, Ky, Mo


1930, San Francisco, San Francisco, California:

Pack, Alphonse, head, 38, Penn , Penn , Penn, propiator, retail auto
Pack, Brittie, wife, 38, Mo, Ky, Mo, saleslady, retail Auto

They were both 24 at first marriage.


Peter Alphonse Pack and Birttie George were married in 1916/17. Birttie George71-75 (daughter of William D. George and Elizabeth Saddler) was born on 13 Oct 1892 in Missouri. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Duval Twp, Jasper, Missouri. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Erie Twp, Neosho, Kansas. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Redwood City, San Mateo, California. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Redwood City, San Mateo, California. She died on 16 Sep 1970 in Santa Clara County, California.
Pack is a rare surname, Birttie is a rare given name, and her SSN on the CDI, 549-44-9874, is the same as Peter Alphonse's.

Given she was born in Missouri and he Pennsylvania, they probably met in California. I found a Birtie George in Kansas in 1910, and her family is in San Jose in 1920. This is a stretch, but I'd bet large sums at long odds she is the one who married Peter. I've included her family for that reason. [TP]




38. Edward C. Pack1,7,8,76,77 (Jacob J-3, John-2, Peter-1) was born in Oct 1891 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Gloucester City, Camden, New Jersey.
1920, St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania

Pack, Edward C, head, head, M, 28, Penn, Penn, Penn, Clerk RR
Pack, Clara C, wife, F, 28, Penn, Ger, Ger
Pack, Edward C, son, M, 3, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Vera M, dau, F, 8/12, Penn, Penn, Penn

I have no proof this is our Edward. The given name, middle initial, age, and all three birthplaces match. Half of his siblings and first cousins are in St Clair in 1920. All three BP's are spot on. Some of the family works for the railroad. Still, it could be a coincidence.

Assuming it isn't, here they are in 1930, in Gloucester City, Camden, New Jersey:

Pack Edward C, head, 38, Penn, Penn, Penn, clerk, RR
Pack Clara C, wife, 38, Penn, Ger, Ger
[next page]
Pack Edward C, son, 13, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack Vera M, dau, 10, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack Beatrice C, dau, 8, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack Mary A, dau, 6, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack Eugene F, son, 1, 8/12, NJ, Penn, Penn

They were both 23 at first marriage.

Edward C. Pack and Clara (Unknown) were married in 1914/15 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob). Clara (Unknown)76,77 was born in 1891/92 in Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Gloucester City, Camden, New Jersey. Edward C. Pack and Clara (Unknown) had the following children:

       100       i.       Edward C Pack76,77 was born in 1916/17 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Gloucester City, Camden, New Jersey.
       101       ii.       Vera M Pack76,77 was born in 1919/20 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Gloucester City, Camden, New Jersey.
       102       iii.       Beatrice C Pack77 was born in 1921/22 in Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Gloucester City, Camden, New Jersey.
       103       iv.       Mary A Pack77 was born in 1923/24 in Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Gloucester City, Camden, New Jersey.
       104       v.       Eugene F Pack77 was born in 1928 in Gloucester City, Camden, New Jersey. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Gloucester City, Camden, New Jersey.
                     I'm assuming his parents made one move, Penn > Glouster, and he was born there.

39. Harry P Pack1,7,8,78-81 (Jacob J-3, John-2, Peter-1) was born on 2 Feb 1894 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Oak Park, Cook, Illinois. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Glendale, Los Angeles, California. He died on 24 Feb 1964 in Los Angeles County, California.
Harry managed to meet a lady from Michigan, somehow. Cindy Tobolski has them on her RWWC data base. Harry and Mary show up in Glendale in 1930, where his parents live. This could be a coincidence. The ages and BPs all line up, and Harry's MMN on his California Death Index entry is Kuehner.


1920, Precinct 21, Oak Park, Cook, Illinois:

Pack, Harry, head, head, M, 25, Penn, Penn, Penn, grocery, own store
Pack, Mary, wife, F, 29, Mich, Ohio, Ohio
Pack, Edward, son, M, 4, Penn, Penn, Ohio
Pack, Harry J, son, M, 0, Ill, Penn, Ohio
Clark, Thomas Bro-in-law, M, 49, Ohio, Ohio, Ohio, grocery, own store

The birthplaces of the two children suggests Mary was in Pennsylvania for something, met and married Harry, then her brother offered Harry a job or partnership in a grocery store.


1930, Glendale, Los Angeles, California

Pack, Harry P, head, 36, Penn, Penn, Penn, grocery store
Pack, Mary C, wife, 38, Mich, Ohio, Ohio
Pack, Edward C, son, 14, Penn, Penn, Mich
Pack, Harry J, son, 10, Ill, Penn, Mich
Pack, Aimee M, dau, 7, Penn, Penn, Mich
Clarke, Thomas P, Bro-in-law, 59, Ohio, Ohio, Ohio, grocery store

If Aimee's BP is correct, the Illinois adventure didn't last long.
Harry was 20 and first marriage, Mary 22.

Harry P Pack and Mary Clarke were married in 1914/15. Mary Clarke78-80,82 (daughter of Pius Ignatius Clarke and Mary Caroline Oberle) was born on 26 Nov 1891 in Michigan. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Oak Park, Cook, Illinois. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Glendale, Los Angeles, California. She died on 2 Jan 1966 in Los Angeles County, California.
There are three entries on the California Death Index that match the census records:

Clarke, Thomas Pius; b. 01/01/1870, MMN Oberle
Clarke, Anthony R; b. 06/24/1875, MMN Oberle
Clarke, George R; b. 12/21/1879, MMN Oberle

Mary's says
Pack, Mary C; b. 11/26/1891 MMN Overly

BUT, Thomas P. Clarke, brother-in-law, and the right age to be Thomas Pius there, is with them in 1920 and 1930, which gives us Mary's maiden name.

There is one more problem; the CDI says Mary was born 26 Nov 1891, and the IGI says Mary Caroline Oberle died 4 Sep 1891. If Mary Clarke the daughter fudged her age a year and was really born 26 Nov 1890, it would not be the first time. If the IGI was off, and Mary Oberle the mother died 4 Sep 1892, that would not be the first time either. Harry P Pack and Mary Clarke had the following children:

       105       i.       Edward Pack79,80 was born in 1915/16 in Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Oak Park, Cook, Illinois. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Glendale, Los Angeles, California.
       106       ii.       Harry J Pack79,80 was born in 1920 in Illinois. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Oak Park, Cook, Illinois. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Glendale, Los Angeles, California.
       107       iii.       Aimee Pack80 was born in 1922/23 in Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Glendale, Los Angeles, California.

40. Florence Pack1,7,8,46,83,84 (Jacob J-3, John-2, Peter-1) was born in Oct 1896 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
He gets recorded as a daughter in 1910. "Florence" is a horrible name for a son.

His WWI draft card says he is living at 133 Margaret Street in Mt. Oliver; works for Dulmoth and Porter, and is married to Catherine. Brown eyes, light brown hair.


1920, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Pack, Florence J, head, 23, Penn, Penn, Penn, carpenter help, steel mill
Pack, Cathryn M, wife, 22, Penn, Westphalia, Austria
Pack, Kathleen A, dau, 7/12, Penn, Penn, Penn


1930, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania;

Pack, Florance J, head, 33, Penn, Penn, Penn, driver, dairy co.
Pack, Catherine M, wife, 32, Penn, Austria-Hungary, A-H
Pack, Kathleen A, dau, 11, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Dorothy M, dau, 6, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Helen D, dau, 3 and 9/12, Penn, Penn, Penn


Florence Pack and Catherine (Unknown) were married in 1916/17 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob). Catherine (Unknown)83,84 was born in 1897/98 in Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. Florence Pack and Catherine (Unknown) had the following children:

       108       i.       Kathleen A Pack83,84 was born in 1919 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       109       ii.       Dorothy M Pack84 was born in 1923/24 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       110       iii.       Helen D Pack84 was born in 1926 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.

41. Joseph Nicholas Pack1,7-9,46,85 (Jacob J-3, John-2, Peter-1) was born on 3 Oct 1899 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
Joseph's WWI draft card tells us his exact date of birth and his middle name. The rest is illegible, save for grey eyes and brown hair.

1930, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Pack, Joseph N, head, 30, Penn, Penn, Penn, salesman, Elec. Co.
Pack, Alma C, wife, 28, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Louise, dau, 5, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Joan, dau, 4 and 1/12, Penn, Penn, Penn
Dearof, Charlotte, Mother-in-Law, 69, Penn, Ger, Ger

Joseph was 23 at first marriage, Alma 21.
See Alma's mother, Charlotte Grauf, for a discussion of her maiden name.

Joseph Nicholas Pack and Alma C Grauf were married in 1921/22 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob). Alma C Grauf85-87 (daughter of (Unknown) Grauf and Charlotte (Unknown)) was born in 1901/2 in Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. Joseph Nicholas Pack and Alma C Grauf had the following children:

       111       i.       Louise Pack85 was born in 1924/25 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       112       ii.       Joan Pack85 was born in 1926 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.

44. Hilda Pack8,9,30,32,88 (Jacob J-3, John-2, Peter-1) was born on 28 May 1907 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Glendale, Los Angeles, California. She died on 28 Jun 1984 in Los Angeles County, California.
The California Voter Registrations, 1900 - 1968 give us a picture.

1934: Hilda, John, Jacob and Susanna were all living at 134 S. Belmont, Glendale, Los Angeles, and all Democrats.

1936: Only Hilda, John and Susanna are at 134 S. Belmont. Hilda is a cashier, John a grocer.

1938: All three are at 134 S. Belmont.

1946: John and Hilda have moved to 419 E. Harvard Street, Glendale.

1948: John and Hilda are still in 419 E. Harvard, but now Harry T O'Shell is with them.

1950: John and Hilda are listed, 419 E. Harvard; Harry has moved out or decided not to register.

1952: John and Hilda, 419 E. Harvard.

Hilda Pack and (Unknown) O'Shell were married in 1928 in Pennsylvania (prob). (Unknown) O'Shell30 was born between 1887 and 1907 in Pennsylvania. He was also known as Oshell.
All we know about Mr. O'Shell is that Hilda married, then bore a child by him; she and the child are living with he rparents in 1930. I gave him a birth year estimate by assuming he was 0 - 20 years older than Hilda. His birth state comes from son Theodore's census entry.

O'Shell is a very rare name, but it is that on the 1930 entry and on Hilda's death record. It is either Oshell or O'Shell on dozens of California voters registration lists. Hilda Pack and (Unknown) O'Shell had the following children:

       113       i.       Harry Theodore O'Shell30 was born in 1928/29 in Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Glendale, Los Angeles, California. He was also known as Oshell.

49. Cecilia C Kirstein1,12,35,89 (Catherine Pack-3, Andrew-2, Peter-1) was born in Dec 1880 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She died between 1910 and 1919 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob).

Cecilia C Kirstein and Aloysius Bach were married in 1906/7 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob). Aloysius Bach35,90 was born in 1885/86 in Germany. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
See mother-in-law Catherine for the 1910 census entry.

The RWWC "Tobolski/Nowicki Genealogy" data base says Cecilia died in 1908. The 1910 census proves she didn't, but she probably died after 1910 because in 1920, Aloysius has remarried - a woman older than himself, again, oddly enough - and has sent daughter Catherine to live with her grandmother and namesake.

1920, Pittsburgh Ward 17, Allegheny, Pennsylvania

Bach Aloysius, head, 34, France, Fr, Fr
Bach Rose, wife, 37, Germany, Ger, Ger
Bach Edward S, son, 11, Penn France, Penn

Aloysius immigrated in 1893, Rose in 1889. Cecilia C Kirstein and Aloysius Bach had the following children:

       114       i.       Katherine Bach35,37,39 was born in 1907 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
                     It looks like Catherine is with her grandmother, Catherine Pack Kirstein, for the 1920 and 1930.
       115       ii.       Edward Bach35,37,90 was born in 1908 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
                     Edwrd is with his grandmother Christine Pack Kirstein for 1930.

52. Alexander Peter (Sanders) Kirstein1,12,35,43,91,92 (Catherine Pack-3, Andrew-2, Peter-1) was born on 8 Aug 1887 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Wheeling, Ohio, West Virginia. He died in May 1969 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania (LR).
He might have used "Sanders" as a nickname, or the 1901 reporter may just have mis-understood "Alexander".

His WWI Draft card says he is a "Tobi Maker", whatever that is. I'm probably misreading it. Single, medium build and height, grey eyes, light brown hair. Home adress 131 Anthony Street, but his employer is in Wheeling, West Virginia.

That makes this 1920 census entry look like him:

Wheeling Ward 5, Ohio, West Virginia:

Kerstern, Alexander, head, 32, Penn, Penn, Penn, Stogie maker, tobacco factory
Kerstern, Anna, wife, 27, Penn, Germany, Ger

I can't find them in 1930.

Alexander Peter (Sanders) Kirstein and Anna (Unknown) were married between 1917 and 1920. Anna (Unknown)92 was born in 1892/93 in Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Wheeling, Ohio, West Virginia.


53. Elmer Alexander Kirstein1,12,35,93-97 (Catherine Pack-3, Andrew-2, Peter-1) was born on 25 Nov 1889 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He was living in 1917 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He died in Oct 1970 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania (LR).
Elmer's WWI draft card gives us his middle name, Alexander, his exact birth date, 25 Nov 1889, the fact he is single and living at 131 Anthony Street in 1917, and a brief physical description; tall, medium build, brown eyes, dark blonde hair. He works as a "Puddler" in a steel mill.

His WWII Card shows he hasn't moved much; now he is at 304 Hays Street, Mt. Oliver. He works for the Lockhart Iron and Steel Co. Mrs. Anna Kirstein is listed as someone who will always know where he is, but no address.


1920, Pittsburgh Ward, 17, Allegheny, P ennsylvania:

Kristein, Elmer, head, 36, Penn, Penn, Penn, Puddler tube factory
Kristein, Anna, wife, 33, NY, Bavaria, Bavaria
Kristein, Cryrilla, dau, 9, Penn, Penn, NY
Kristein, Elmer, son, 7, Penn, Penn, NY

His age is off by 5 - he should be 30 or 31 - but the job is the same as it was in 1917, his wife's name is the same as the person who will always know where he is on the 1942 draft card.

The age discrepancy may be the indexer's fault; the "6" in the "36" looks about halfway between the other "6"s on the page and the "0"s. If he was single in 1917, the children are step-children, but it is odd that one is named after his sister and the other after him.


1930, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Kirstine, Elmer A, head, 40, Penn, Penn, Penn
Kirstine, Anna M, wife, 43, NY, Germany, France
Kirstine, Cyrilla A, dau, 19, Penn, Penn, NY
Kirstine, Elmer E, son, 17, Penn, Penn, NY

Elmer was 29 a first marriage, Anna 23, so the kids are stepchildren. Their surnames are Kirstein, however, and their given names are very close to his family. He may have adopted them. He may have married the widow of a brother or a cousin.

Elmer Alexander Kirstein and Anna M (Unknown) were married in 1918/19 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob). Anna M (Unknown)96,97 was born in 1886/87 in New York. She appeared in the census in 1920 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.


58. Gerhart Gerard Kirstein1,35,39,98,99 (Catherine Pack-3, Andrew-2, Peter-1) was born on 24 Oct 1900 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He died in Nov 1975 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania (LR).
1930, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania

Kirstein, Gerhardt, head, 29, Penn, Penn, Penn, printer's helper
Kirstein, Margaretha, wife, 30, Germany, Germ


Gerhart Gerard Kirstein and Margaretha (Unknown) were married in 1924/25 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob). Margaretha (Unknown)99 was born in 1899/1900 in Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.


61. Cornelius J. Pack12,35,39,100,101 (Peter-3, Andrew-2, Peter-1) was born on 30 Dec 1896 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1900 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He died in Jun 1977 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania (LR).
With a given name like "Cornelius" there isn't much doubt that the SSDI entry is ours. His 1900 census entry says he was born Dec 1897, the SSDI and his WWI draft card 30 Dec 1896.

His 1917 WWI draft card saiys he is medium height, medium build, grey eyes, dark brown hair. He lives at 139 Anthony Street.

1930, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania:

Pack, Cornelius J, head, 33, Penn, Penn, Penn, engraver, Stamp Co.
Pack, Oliva, wife, 28, Penn, Penn, Germany
Pack, Dorothy, dau, 6, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Robert, son, 3, Penn, Penn, Penn
Pack, Lorraine, dau, 1, Penn, Penn, Penn

Cornelius was 26 at first marriage, Olivia 21


Cornelius J. Pack and Olivia (Unknown) were married in 1922/23 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob). Olivia (Unknown)101,102 was born on 23 Nov 1901 in Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. She died in Jan 1974 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania (LR). Cornelius J. Pack and Olivia (Unknown) had the following children:

       116       i.       Dorothy Pack101 was born in 1923/24 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       117       ii.       Robert Pack101 was born in 1926/27 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
       118       iii.       Lorraine Pack101 was born in 1928/29 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.

71. Clarence Pack35,49,103 (Jacob-3, Andrew-2, Peter-1) was born in 1903/4 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1910 in Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1920 in St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. He appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
This looks like our Clarence in 1930, based on the facts
1) His age is about right
2) He is the only Clarence Pack in Allegheny County
3) In 1920, the only Clarence Pack in Allegheny county was Jacob and Catherine's son.

He is four enumeration districts away from his family, though; if he was on the same street I'd be more sure.

1930, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania

Pack, Clarence G, head, 26, Penn, Penn, Penn, truck driver, waste factory
Pack, Anna M, wife, 22, Penn, Europe, Europe
Pack, Regina A, dau, 1, 7/12, Penn

He was 23 at first marriage, she 20.

Clarence Pack and Anna M (Unknown) were married in 1926/27 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania (prob). Anna M (Unknown)103 was born in 1907/8 in Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. Clarence Pack and Anna M (Unknown) had the following children:

       119       i.       Regina Pack103 was born in 1928 in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. She appeared in the census in 1930 in Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.

Sources

1. Newspaper Articles, The Pittsburgh Press (Pittsburg, PA) - Sunday, Sep 15, 1901, Page 19. See Peter for complete details about the article.
2. United States Census - 1850, Lower St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll M432_748, Page 141A, Image 286.
3. United States Census - 1860, Jefferson, Butler, Pennsylvania; Roll M653_1087, Page 519, Image 66;.
4. Personal Knowledge, Posts on Ancestry PACK mailing list by descendants.
5. United States Census, 1870. Allentown, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll M593_1293, Page 378A, Image 158;.
6. United States Census - 1880, 31th Ward, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania, p. 363C.
7. United States Census - 1900, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T623_1370, Page 22A; ED 455.
8. United States Census - 1910, Mount Oliver Ward 1, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T624_1296, Page 6B; ED 166, Image 218.
9. United States Census - 1920, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T625_1515, Page 10B; ED 259, Image 581.
10. United States Census, 1870. Lower St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll M593_1293, Page 315B, Image 33;.
11. United States Census - 1880, Lower St. Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania, p. 389D.
12. United States Census - 1900, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T623_1370, Page 16B; ED 455.
13. United States Census - 1880, 27th Ward, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; p. 236D.
14. United States Census - 1910, Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T624_1293, Page 1A; ED 37, Image 482.
15. United States Census - 1920, Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T625_1510, Page 12A; ED 52, Image 413.
16. United States Census - 1880, Lower St. Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; p. 389C.
17. United States Census - 1900, Lower Saint Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T623_1368, Page 20B; ED 415.
18. United States Census - 1920, Saint Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T625_1528, Page 16A; ED 781, Image 379.
19. United States Census - 1910, St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T624_1297, Page 7A; ED 213, Image 196.
20. United States Census - 1930, Redwood City, San Mateo, California; Roll 217, Page 15B; ED 50, Image 302.0.
21. Social Security Death Index
There are several of them on-line. I like the one at RootsWeb the best. Pack, Rose; 13 Feb 1890 - Jan 1981; LR Redwood City, San Mateo, CA.
22. California Voter Registrations, 1944, Redwood City, San Mateo, California; Pcnt 30.
23. California Death Index.
RootsWeb has the data base on-line. Date is from the California Department of Health Services Office of Health Information and Research vital Statistics Section. Pack, Mary E; b. 10/18/1893 in Pennsylvania; d. San Mateo Co. 12/06/1982; mother Knidler.
24. Social Security Death Index
There are several of them on-line. I like the one at RootsWeb the best. Pack, Mary; 20 Oct 1893 - Dec 1982; LR Redwood City, San Mateo, CA.
25. California Death Index.
RootsWeb has the data base on-line. Date is from the California Department of Health Services Office of Health Information and Research vital Statistics Section. Pack, Harry Peter; b. 10/15/1895 in Pennsylvania; d. San Mateo Co. 10/02/1986; mother Kindler.
26. Social Security Death Index
There are several of them on-line. I like the one at RootsWeb the best. Mardon, Estelle; 20 Aug 1903 - Jan 1985; LR 94515 (Calistoga, Napa, CA).
27. California Death Index.
RootsWeb has the data base on-line. Date is from the California Department of Health Services Office of Health Information and Research vital Statistics Section. Mardon Estelle Mary; b. 08/20/1903 in Pennsylvania, d. Napa Co 01/12/1985; MMN Keindler, Father Pack.
28. Ibid., Pack, Urban J; b. 10/21/1906 in Pennsylvania; d. Santa Clara Co. 09/22/1986; mother Kneidgler.
29. Social Security Death Index
There are several of them on-line. I like the one at RootsWeb the best. Pack, Urban; 21 Oct 1906 - Sep 1986; LR 95126 (San Jose, Santa Clara, CA).
30. United States Census - 1930, Glendale, Los Angeles, California; Roll 127, Page 1A; ED 980, Image 887.0.
31. California Death Index.
RootsWeb has the data base on-line. Date is from the California Department of Health Services Office of Health Information and Research vital Statistics Section. Pack, Susanna, b. 04/27/1869 in Pennsylvania, d. Los Angeles Co. 03/07/1943; Mother Didion, father Kuchner.
32. California Voter Registrations. See Hilda Pack for the complete list.
33. United States Census - 1880, Lower Saint Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll 1089, Page 390A; ED 67.
34. California Death Index.
RootsWeb has the data base on-line. Date is from the California Department of Health Services Office of Health Information and Research vital Statistics Section. Pack, John A, b. 08/10/1912 in Pennsylvania, d. Los Angeles Co. 01/12/1980; mother Kuehner [Kuchner].
35. United States Census - 1910, Mount Oliver Ward 2, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T624_1296, Page 15A; ED 167, Image 281.
36. United States Census - 1920, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T625_1515, Page 6A; ED 262, Image 640.
37. United States Census - 1930, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll 1966, Page 13B; ED 717, Image 448.0.
38. United States Census - 1880, West Liberty, Allegheny, Pennsylvania, p. 188D.
39. United States Census - 1920, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T625_1515, Page 6B; ED 262, Image 641.
40. United States Census - 1880, Lower St. Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; p 389D.
41. World War II Draft Cards, Serial 3566, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
42. Social Security Death Index
There are several of them on-line. I like the one at RootsWeb the best. Cyrilla Kirstein 6 Mar 1892 - Oct 1981; LR Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
43. World War I Draft Cards.
44. United States Census - 1930, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll 1966, Page 14A; ED 717, Image 449.0.
45. Social Security Death Index
There are several of them on-line. I like the one at RootsWeb the best. Pack, Andrew; 16 Jan 1895 - Apr 1984; LR 15201 (Pittsburgh, Allegheny, PA).
46. World War I Draft Cards, Allegheny County.
47. Social Security Death Index
There are several of them on-line. I like the one at RootsWeb the best. Pack, Ralph; 20 Nov 1900 - Jan 1988; LR 15236 (Pittsburgh, Allegheny, PA).
48. United States Census - 1900, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T623_1370, Page 19A; ED 455.
49. United States Census - 1920, Saint Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T625_1528, Page 1A; ED 781, Image 349.
50. United States Census - 1930, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll 1979, Page 22A; ED 270, Image 1013.0.
51. Social Security Death Index
There are several of them on-line. I like the one at RootsWeb the best. Pack, Aloysius; 09 Mar 1912 - Jun 1980; LR 15210 (Pittsburgh, Allegheny, PA).
52. United States Census - 1910, Mount Oliver Ward 2, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T624_1296, Page 15B; ED 167, Image 282.
53. United States Census - 1930, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll 1966, Page 15A; ED 717, Image 451.0.
54. United States Census - 1900, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T623_1370, Page 19B; ED 455.
55. United States Census - 1910, Mount Oliver Ward 1, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T624_1296, Page 22B; ED 166, Image 250.
56. United States Census - 1920, Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T625_1510, Page 6B; ED 54, Image 472.
57. United States Census - 1930, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll 1988, Page 16A; ED 361, Image 278.0.
58. United States Census - 1910, St Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T624_1297, Page 6B; ED 214, Image 231.
59. United States Census - 1920, Saint Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T625_1528, Page 8B; ED 782, Image 402.
60. United States Census - 1900, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T623_1369, Page 8B; ED 455.
61. United States Census - 1910, Cleveland Ward 22, Cuyahoga, Ohio; Roll T624_1174, Page 9B; ED 329, Image 545.
62. United States Census - 1920, Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T625_1510, Page 5A; ED 54, Image 469.
63. United States Census - 1910, Mount Oliver Ward 1, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T624_1296, Page 6A; ED 166, Image 217.
64. United States Census - 1920, Carrick, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T625_1510, Page 17B; ED 53, Image 450.
65. United States Census - 1930, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll 1988, Page 19A; ED 360, Image 199.0.
66. Ibid., Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll 1988, Page 17B; ED 365, Image 569.0.
67. United States Census - 1920, Saint Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T625_1528, Page 4A; ED 781, Image 355.
68. United States Census - 1930, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll 1988, Page 27B; ED 358, Image 56.0.
69. California Death Index.
RootsWeb has the data base on-line. Date is from the California Department of Health Services Office of Health Information and Research vital Statistics Section. Pack, Alphonse; b. 02/26/1893; d. Santa Clara Co 01/07/1968; mother Kniedler, SSN 549-44-9874.
70. Social Security Death Index
There are several of them on-line. I like the one at RootsWeb the best. Pack, Alphons; 26 Feb 1892 - Jan 1968; LR 95125 (San Jose, Santa Clara, CA).
71. United States Census - 1920, Redwood City, San Mateo, California; Roll T625_145, Page 3A; ED 79, Image 681.
72. United States Census - 1930, San Francisco, San Francisco, California; Roll 203, Page 19A; ED 232, Image 323.0.
73. California Death Index.
RootsWeb has the data base on-line. Date is from the California Department of Health Services Office of Health Information and Research vital Statistics Section. Pack, Birttie, b. 10/13/1892 in Missouri; d. Santa Clara Co. 09/16/1970; SSN 549-44-9874.
74. United States Census - 1900, Duval, Jasper, Missouri; Roll T623_865, Page 8B; ED 29.
75. United States Census - 1910, Erie, Neosho, Kansas; Roll T624_451, Page 24A; ED 201, Image 405.
76. United States Census - 1920, Saint Clair, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T625_1528, Page 3B; ED 782, Image 392.
77. United States Census - 1930, Gloucester City, Camden, New Jersey; Roll 1323, Page 4B; ED 109, Image 622.0.
78. Roots Web World Connect, Cindy Tobolski.
79. United States Census - 1920, Oak Park Precinct 21, Cook, Illinois; Roll T625_362, Page 8A; ED 171, Image 354.
80. United States Census - 1930, Glendale, Los Angeles, California; Roll 127, Page 6B; ED 969, Image 518.0.
81. California Death Index.
RootsWeb has the data base on-line. Date is from the California Department of Health Services Office of Health Information and Research vital Statistics Section. Pack, Harry P; b. 02/18/1894, d. Los Angeles Co. 02/24/1964; MMN Kuehner.
82. Ibid., Pack, Mary C; b. 11/26/1891 in Michigan, d. Los Angeles Co. 01/02/1966; MMN Overly.
83. United States Census - 1920, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T625_1515, Page 1B; ED 261, Image 607.
84. United States Census - 1930, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll 1966, Page 4A; ED 717, Image 429.0.
85. Ibid., Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll 1981, Page 26B; ED 303, Image 423.0.
86. United States Census - 1910, Pittsburgh Ward 18, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T624_1305, Page 9A; ED 525, Image 896.
87. United States Census - 1920, Pittsburgh Ward 18, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T625_1521, Page 14B, Enumeration District 615, Image 583.
88. California Death Index.
RootsWeb has the data base on-line. Date is from the California Department of Health Services Office of Health Information and Research vital Statistics Section. Oshell, Hilda E, b. 05/28/1907 in Canada [sic], d. Los Angeles Co. 06/28/1984;
Mother Kuhn, father Pack.
89. Roots Web World Connect, Tobolski/Nowicki Genealogy. No sources cited, but the date fits.
90. United States Census - 1920, Pittsburgh Ward 17, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T625_1525, Page 10A; ED 595, Image 380.
91. Social Security Death Index
There are several of them on-line. I like the one at RootsWeb the best. Alexander Kirstein, 8 Aug 1887 - May 1969; LR 15230 (Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania).
92. United States Census - 1920, Wheeling Ward 5, Ohio, West Virginia; Roll T625_1966, Page 2B; ED 88, Image 831.
93. World War I Draft Cards, Allegheny County, PA.
94. World War II Draft Cards, Serial number 3565, Allegheny County.
95. Social Security Death Index
There are several of them on-line. I like the one at RootsWeb the best. Elmer Kirstein, 25 Nov 1889 - Oct 1970; LR Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
96. United States Census - 1920, Pittsburgh Ward 17, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll T625_1525, Page 18B; ED 593, Image 320.
97. United States Census - 1930, Mount Oliver, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll 1966, Page 25B; ED 717, Image 472.0.
98. Social Security Death Index
There are several of them on-line. I like the one at RootsWeb the best. Gerard Kirstein, 24 Oct 1900 - Nov 1975; LR 15210 (Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania).
99. United States Census - 1930, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll 1979, Page 15A; ED 269, Image 931.0.
100. Social Security Death Index
There are several of them on-line. I like the one at RootsWeb the best. Pack, Cornelius; 30 Dec 1896 - Jun 1977; LR 15227 (Pittsburgh, Allegheny, PA).
101. United States Census - 1930, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll 1988, Page 40A; ED 362, Image 390.0.
102. Social Security Death Index
There are several of them on-line. I like the one at RootsWeb the best. Pack, Oliva; 23 Nov 1901 - Jan 1974; LR 15227 (Pittsburgh, Allegheny, PA).
103. United States Census - 1930, Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania; Roll 1980, Page 7B; ED 274, Image 97.0.


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