Re: Vogan Origins - open debate please join in
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In reply to:
Re: Vogan Origins - open debate please join in
12/10/01
I am surprised that no-one else has joined us too.I thought maybe Lee Vogan was someone new however I note the same email address so you must be Robert Lee Vogan, is there some southern (USA) connection?
Yes there are many theories and not much hard evidence.I suppose I have heard so many and none of them really checked out.
My own theory of the Vaughan connection has some merit and at least provides a testable origin.As I said before Vaughan is proven to be from the ancient Welsh surname, Fychan - it was transliterated into English and then the pronouciation was angliscised - inother words it was mangled. As welsh is a living language this process has been easily traced and documented.
Fychan is pronounced Vuchan the variants are also well documented. One variant was Voghan and without stretching the imagination much you can understand someone dropping the h to retain the original pronounciation.In Ireland gh is silent as in English pronounciation of the Vaughan.
Most Welsh surname are patrynomic that is they came from the father's first name, hence Thomas, Evans, Jones.Many English surnames are from placenames and others from jobs as you mention.
However As to the meaning of Fychan - it was a nickname. It would have been attached to the name of a noble's son indicating that he was the lesser, or the younger. The name means small man, however it is has a feminine mutation which indicates at sometime it was used for a female.That part I have not worked out but it is documented that the Vaughan's are among the higher classses in Wales.
I have found no other meaning, relating to place or trade. There are a few Vaughan place names which were named after people.I do remember one in the 15th Century in Wiltshire but it is of dubious connection Fogan my notes on it are in Ecuador so it is difficult to look up now.
I did see a Russian word and surname that loked like Vogan - it was very rare and I too didn't take it serious.
I found a Sir Richard Voghan in the Marches, which is now Hertfordshire.Seem like a devious type from the records left of some law suits in the time of Henry VIII.
Yes I accept Ireland from the late 1600's onwards. The earliest record I have found was 1713ish near Armagh.
So that is why it is not originally Irish. However 400 years is long enough to intermarry - absorb the culture and customs I suppose.Just the actual surname that is not Irish and a few strands of DNA in there somewhere.
Ireland was called Scotia by the Romans and also Bede. Skotia in greek means darkness don't know if there is any connection.But if anyone visited in the long winter nights it would be appropriate or when the Romans and Greeks visited it was very savage.
The Scots have an interesting and long history which I am sure that you could read a good book on.But in brief they were a tribe in the northern part of Ireland - Ulster. In 1st Century A.D. they invaded western Scotland and some of the islands.That kingdom was called Dalriada.The Picts were pushed east and eventually the royal families joined.In southern Scotland the royal families of the Britons and the Angles joined and eventually the Northern and Southern Kingdoms joined to form Scotland.So it is a right old mix with at least 4 ethinic groups plus the Vikings and later the Normans (into the Royal family and some nobles).
It might be an over simplification to say that Scot means pirate.Around AD 1 the Scots and Irish in general were probably similar in agression and trading as the Angles (Sea wolves) and the Vikings later. See the Confessions of St. Patrick.
History is very intersting and having an enygmatic surname is intersting sometimes except when some English person wants to pidgeon hole me.In England the find it difficult to deal with a rare name and always want to spell as some surname that they already know.It makes for many mistakes, Wogan, Hogan, Logan etc.
Well I guess if no-one else is interssted. You can always contactme through [email protected]. If anyone has inormation etc on Vogan origins we will be intersted.
Yours
Mark Vogan
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Re: Vogan Origins - open debate please join in
Vern Elder 2/06/09